LLQ crow canyon disqalificattion

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

footlogicracing

PR Addict
This is in regards to Chris Carrs disqualifcation after practice at crow canyon. I will be brief but thought all should know how you can expect to be treated by this promoter and AMA. Chris got up late and missed AB practice as he was still at signup. Went down on 250 2 stroke and somehow got out with wrong group. Was flagged off. Retuned on 2 stoke for correct practice session . Went down 450 for late practice however there were no other bikes there. The gate worker made the decision to send Chris out with current practice session asking him to just be careful. Chris was careful and just wanted to check out some lines. He was again black flagged (and red flagged, go figure!) He stopped and spoke with the red flagger and explained he had been sent out there by the gate worker and then continued on his way. Upon returning to the pits he was called down to signup and told he was being disqualified. He explained what had transpired. They called up the gate worker and he stated he had made the decision to send Chris out with the last practice. Didn't seem to matter. His mother then went down with Chris to try and smooth the situation out. Didn't help. She was told that someone told them that Chris had been out there 4 to 5 times and that he does this on regular basis everywhere. (all who know Chris will know this is untrue.) Then someone in the background high fived the promoter for upholding his decision. Makes you wonder what that was about. I went down to obtain names of all who was involved in this decision ( a business decision on my part). I did not know who I was speaking with (turned out it was Mr. Drew Wolfe). He was quite rude stating I did not need to know anyones name. Further more I was told to convey to Chris Carr that if he returned again (returned where?) he would be treated the same way. Upon returning home his mother found a post on Chris' face book that was made days prior by someone with the last name of Wolfe stating he was going to embarrass Chris at the race that weekend. When his mother replied to the post asking if he was related to Mr. Wolfe the promoter the post soon after disappeared. I have made several calls to a Mr. Kip Bigelow at AMA but have yet to receive a reply. I really don"t expect anything to be resolved by AMA but as the saying goes I want my day in court. I want all to know we hold no ill feelings to anyone else on the crow canyon crew. They were great. My beef is with the promoter Mr. Wolfe only. He was rude and in my opinion not very business like in the way he handled himself. (and this is a business!) It would seem this became a personal decision against Chris for whatever reaston not a business desicion.
 
Wow, sounds like these "promoters" from Action Sports (correct me if im wrong) are really making themselves look like a bunch of jackasses. Sounds like Mr. Drew Wolfe and kids (if this stemmed from FB) rank right up there toward the top of the big headed douche bag list. Again, correct me if im wrong, but pulling that crap and having that kind of attitude is pretty self explanatory.

I dont really care if hes "Mr. Promoter" or not, if your in the business, you better be able to conduct yourself in a business like manner. High fivin' and being rude isnt a very good representation of someone who has apparently been in the "business" for a long as he has. Not smart.
http://actionsportsracing.com/about_action_sports.html


All over some practice crap. Really?


Guys from Crow. Please do not let these people ruin your future events.
 
I might just avoid the Action Sports stuff this year if that is how they treat their customers. Are they too stupid to look around at all of the old tracks that are now gone and realize they have a good thing as long as they keep people coming back?

Probably not.
 
Dont know what happened or am not taking sides......BUT, I have raced races that Drew Wolfe has put on MANY MANY times in the last 25 years. Drew and crew have always been pretty upstanding guys and usually have run pretty good programs. Just hard to believe if that is the "whole" story. There is always two sides to everything, and usually no one is totally innocent on neither side.
 
John, like you, I was not there so I dont know every detail, but there is no justifiable reason for the actions described above. Plain ignorance.
 
john 250. you are absolutely correct. That is why I wanted names to those involved so we could get to the bottom of this at a later date. It was already too late to do anything more since the first heat was already out there (Chris' class). I am a business owner and deal with employees and often customers with problems and understand that things happen and can't always be resolved in the heat of the moment. Parties often need a cool down period before discussions can be resumed but without names who do you discuss this with. As stated I did not even know who I was speaking with until after the fact. It is just a sad fact (and I have faced this before years ago with AMA over a legal matter)that often both promoters and AMA have the godlike syndrome and decide they are above reason and even above legalities. If I am wrong about all this then I propose they (the promoter and AMA) both step to the plate and speak with me. I would hate to go other races or qualifiers and receive further problems just because it has not yet be resolved. Mr. Wolfe did threaten me with this stating Chris would receive the same treatment should he return. Return to what I don't know.
 
I'd be curious to hear what Wolfe had to say.

But being prosecuted for someone saying he goes out with every practice all the time is lame. What kind of call is that ?
 
should have took a screen shot of that facebook post. sounds like someone has it out for chris specifically. hope you get to the bottom of it. thats BS. if that was adam cianciarulo, there wouldnt have been a problem.
 
I don't get on these chat room things much but I did earlier today after I received a bunch of phone calls telling me to read the post that Chris' grandmother wrote and to defend my actions diqualifying Chris Carr on Sunday. I replied once but I guess the reply went only to the sender. so here I go again.

I didn't know Chris before this weekend so the disqualification from me and the referee wasn't personal. I haven't diqualified anyone for years. Also my son and Chris are friends. He jokingly said he was going to embarass Chris since he was going to announce the race. He said nothing over the PA and has nothing to do with any of this.

This past Sunday at Crow Canyon 1 rider and two different riders parents said that Chris Carr has been out in 4 practices. I told the finish line flagger to black flag Chris. He had black flagged Chris in an earlier practice that same morning for the same thing. Chris then went out in the C class practice after being out in the A/B and 2 stoke practices. He had raced on Saturday too. He then saw and disregarded the black flag and then went past the flagger with the red flag in the next corner at the track exit and did the same to him. He did not stop and explain anything, I was there and saw it. He continued until the C class practice was over. I announced for Chris to come to the sign up stand and that he was in trouble. I thought since he disregarded the flagers that something needed to get his attention. He came to the sign up stand and the referee and I went inside with Chris to talk in private. He was very loud, rude, disrespectful and dropped the F bomb many times in front of all the girls in sign up. He said the gate guy told him he could go out with the C's since there was no one up for late practice and just to hang back. The gate guy told me that Chris told him that he had missed all of his practices and that's why he let him out. Chris told me and the referee that he was late for his first practice and only got 3 laps and made it through his 2nd practice. He got black flagged in the next big bike practice and then went out in the C practice.

After he was disqualified know one high fived me or anyone I saw, I don't know where that one came from, but there were a lot of people that said he does it all the time and we were praised for our decision. Then his mom and grandmother came to see me to get a refund. I told them I would talk to one of them and asked the grandmother to wait outside. She said that the money for sign up was hers. I told her that Chris owes it to her not me. That he needs to be responsable for his own actions, show some manners and respect. Being that Chris is an adult or at least over 18 this entire deal should have been over with him but I agreed to talk to his mom. Chris' mom requested a refund which I would not do. I did refund the qualifying fee. She said he had gotten up late and didn't get a full practice. I heard that he signed up late and decided to qualify late as well and didn't know how to fill out the form at sign up. This was not our fault and is in no way an excuse to ride multiple practices and not fair to the riders that were riding only in the practice they were supposed to be in. Getting up late is why you don't get as many laps as you are allowed and is incentive to get up earlier.

Then a while later Chris' grandmother came back slammed down a pen, grabbed a piece of paper and demanded I write down a contact person at the AMA and my name and business name. I told her she could write it herself. I gave her the name of the AMA contact and my name and company name as she asked. Then she said in a nasty tone, "I know who you are". One of the girs in sign up wrote it down for her. I'll admit I could heve been a little nicer, but after dealing with Chris' attitude and then being ganged up on repeatedly by his mom and grandmother I was about full of it all, I had a race to run. Chris continued to give me a hard time in the signal area when I asked everyone to move back toward the starting line until after the gate dropped to avoid someone getting knocked off the start when going for the first turn and possibly getting into the signal area.

I stand by my decision and so does the referee and we would and will make the same call again if it becomes an issue. If you can't play by the same rules as everyone else, PLEASE don't come to my event, we don't need the hassle. If I have to take a little crap for making the correct decision I guess I will; it goes with the territory I guess.

In regard to his treatment if he returns, as far as I'm concerned this deal is over and forgotten. What I meant was if he returns to one of my events and tries to cheat, take advantage or anything like that he will get the same result, as will anyone else.

We make rules for safety and fair play. Take a look at the sheet you were handed at sign up called "Riders Meeting" and you will see that it says, "Anyone caught in an unauthorized practice will be disqualified without a refund". It's not in fine print and we have announced it and put it on our riders meeting sheets since the 90's. When someone goes out in an extra practice we hear about it from riders and parents. Why should Chris or anyone get more track time than someone else by sneaking out in extra practices? We run more practices than most for the safety of the riders, to keep the same skill levels on the track at the same time. Thats why we dont run A's and C's or Mini SR and 65's on the track at the same time, its for the protection of the riders. It takes a little longer but it's the safest way. Thats why your practice stickers are numbered, to keep practices seperated. Motocross is dangerous enough when everything goes right. We don't need different skill levels on the track at the same time.

This one deal really screwed up what I think was an almost perfect weekend. And you're right whoever you are, there are two sides to every story; now you know mine.

Many told us that the track was better than its ever been. We dealt with the Friday night rain, had a perfect track Saturday and beat the rain Sunday. I'm sorry we had to cut a lap in the Saturday second motos but Saturday morning track prep after the rain took quite a while, and Sunday went great. Sorry for the dusty roads Friday and we'll get the trash picked up earlier next year too, sorry about that.

Over all I thought it went great and I'd like to thank everyone that attended.

We open our season in Athens, Ohio with a Grand Prix on Saturday April 14th and a motocross practice on our very cool motocross track on Sunday April 15th. If you ride our first GP Saturday you can ride the MX practice Sunday for free.

For more information, schedule and hopefully a video lap of our tracks late next week go to www.ActionSportsRacing.com

Thank you,
Drew Wolfe
Action Sports Promotions Inc
 
LOL!! I don't know you, nor was I there, but it didn't take me long to tell it took you all day to come up with that line of BS to post on here! I have seen and talked to chris and his family many times for many years. I have seen them go through a lot in racing, and 99% of the time they brush it off and go on with no conflict. So for them to be posting what happened, I know someone wronged them. And to say chris was rude?? Really? He is one of the friendliest most respectful faces at the track, and if he acted how you claim, his mom would have smacked it out of him! I don't know, you can't even respond to them on what happened, their questions/concerns but you can spend hours fabricating your post? Hmmm
 
Come on Schlauch.......some of the nicest guys at the track will still get attitude if your disqualifing them. I have seen it a million times. I give Drew credit for responding, he did not have to at all. Like I have said, i've raced a lot of races he promoted, and I never saw anything but a pretty professional crew running the show....
 
I can't believe I am up this late posting on pitracer after 12 hours of work. Chris did respond in a less than stellar fashion and I did speak with about his tone. He was very upset but no excuse.....he responded angrily. He generally talks loud though, so whether upset or happy the volume of Chris's voice is always loud. I often tell him to talk quieter. He's a a loud kid, doesn't have much of an 'indoor voice' unless you count indoor races. Chris loves being at the track and is typically very chipper, dancing to his IPOD and laughing.

Aside from that, I did come up after sending Chris back to the pit area. I was present when the conversation was occurring with the gentleman at the gate. And I was't happy about the way the conversation was occurring outside with snide comments being made (not by the gate guy). The gate guy did not indicate in my presence that Chris told him he had not been out. He did however indicate that he has been watching Chris ride for many years and let him out with the caution to be careful and hang back. He knows Chris and would have known that Chris had been out for his 2 stroke practice. Chris was running late and went out for a wrong practice in error early in the morning but did not complete that practice - he was flagged off. He was not out in the A/B practice. He went out in what we thought was 2 stroke practice after being flagged off for the wrong practice. We could not hear anything where we were parked or get the station to work well. In any event, his morning started out behind. And yes, that is not your problem nor did I ask it to be. But there was not any attempt being made to cheat or steal track time.

I also never brought up anything about Chris getting up late or his inability to fill out the form when I came to discuss a refund. Unfortunately most people don't know how to fill out the paperwork. In fact, I went up later in the morning to help correct what had been done on his qualifying forms. I have been filling them out for many, many years and have gotten pretty good at it. And in those many years Chris has never been flagged off for trying to 'cheat' or for misconduct, unsafe riding or any of the items mentioned above. When I came to seek a refund of his entry I was polite and mentioned only the fact that Chris had been given permission to go out for the practice by the gentleman at the gate. My mom (grandma) was not politely asked to wait outside when she came down with me. I also did not gang up on anyone. I am a very quiet and reserved person. I only yell at the track when I am cheering. I spoke calmly and was responsded to with comments that you 'heard' Chris does this all of the time and that you were high-fived by alot of people for DQ'ing him. In my opinion, those comments were not necessary. They were immature, untrue, and not warranted. I don't think asking for a refund of his entry was in any way 'ganging up'. Chris was clearly still unhappy and heated to come ask about a refund himself. I felt the DQ was punishment enough and did not feel it warranted not giving him at least a partial refund of more than just the qualifying form payment. Unfortunately, despite my calm approach you made those snide comments then stomped off. Anything that happened after I left I am unaware of.

I would have appreciated being treated with the same respect that was expected from Chris. I felt that your reaction to me was just as disrespectful. Again, I was not ganging up, merely attempting to have a calm and civil conversation about the situation. I did not deserve the snide comments, accusations, or to be walked away from in a tizzy. Just my opinion...</SPAN>
 
Schlauch said:
LOL!! I don't know you, nor was I there, but it didn't take me long to tell it took you all day to come up with that line of BS to post on here! I have seen and talked to chris and his family many times for many years. I have seen them go through a lot in racing, and 99% of the time they brush it off and go on with no conflict. So for them to be posting what happened, I know someone wronged them. And to say chris was rude?? Really? He is one of the friendliest most respectful faces at the track, and if he acted how you claim, his mom would have smacked it out of him! I don't know, you can't even respond to them on what happened, their questions/concerns but you can spend hours fabricating your post? Hmmm
Click to expand...

Well he was ganged up on by a grandma and a mom. Give the guy a break.
 
Or call him a sissy. lol

A simple civil conversation would have worked much better than having an attitude because 1 rider and whoever else said he did this all the time. He said she said crap can be thrown out the window. That`s just ignorant to even actually consider.

I can tell you one thing, I would have been pretty pissed off too if I were Chris, and so would any other rider.

All because of some practice crap. Makes me think of peewee football pissin matches for some reason.

Barrington, I bet your right by saying if it were someone like Adam Cianciarula, the DQ wouldnt have happened.
 
answer to Mr. Wolfe

Well he finally speaks. I will try to hit on everything said here. Mr. Wolfe, it would appear you made your decision on a lot of heresay and not facts. I will only say this once more Chris went out to practice 3 times, once getting into the wrong practice on the 2 stroke and he pulled off when flagged then went out again on 2 stroke in correct practice. When he went out on the 450 he was authorized by the gate worker to do so. Whether he raced the day before is irrelivant. If that is the case then anyone racing the day before would not go out for practice. You would do well to read your own rules. It states "Riders on the track in an unauthorized practice will be penalized." Chris was authorized by your gate worker and he told you so. Where does it say disqualified? As for your son being friends with Chris, Chris said he knows who he is but does not know him. If his post was all that innocent then why did his post disappear when questioned about who he was? As for Chris using the F bomb. I was not there the first time but was told he used it once in saying you are F***ing kidding me when you told him he was disqualified.If he said it more than that to you then I am sorry but that was not my understanding. I will say this I hate to hear that word myself but was close to using it myself. To say I was rude and slammed the pen down demanding names. Really. What I said to the girl at the window was I'm sorry I don't have an ink pen would you PLEASE write that down for me.
By the way poor Mr. Wolfe was not attacked by two women! I went up with my daughter merely to see exactly what was going on. I did state that it was my money and not Chris' and therefore felt I had a right to ask for it. I was NOT SO POLITELY asked to leave the building.One thing I would like to remind all of you. Most of your A riders/pro riders, money riders are very passionate about their riding. For most of them is a job. They can not always go to regular jobs because it is difficult for them to keep it when they are practicing and racing such a demanding schedule. When you attack their livelihood it becomes very personal. Chris is lucky that he can work for me a few hours a week. Enough for gas money and little else. He is lucky that I am able to help him with his entry fees. The money he earns racing goes into the pot for these fees. Was he upset when disqualified when he felt he had done nothing wrong. Of course!!
 
LOL!! You're right, you don't know me and you weren't there and neither was Chris' mom. Had she been maybe she would have smacked it out of him, thats what needed to be done. It should have ended with Chris. He needs to be responsible for his actions, not his mom or grandmother. Maybe someone that was in there when he acted the way he did will make a post; there were many witnesses. He went out in multiple practices, was warrned, ignored the black and red flag, was rude, disrespectful and foul mouthed when questioned about it. The referee and I would do it again. Play by the rules and there is no problem. I can't believe if you are a racer you would want another rider to have an unfair advantage when you come to the line. If it was a rider in your class you'd I'll bet you'd want me to take care of it. Hmmm.
I'm done with this topic. Go whine somewhere else.
 
My only thoughts on this whole subject are, You say he was seen in multiple practices? So why not tell the gate worker to not let him back out? It is easy enough as I seen the whole track crew has radio's on so therefore you would be able to push a button and relay the message. I am not here to bash anyone or take either side but I think it could have been handled a little different. There are local tracks that see that kind of stuff go on and put a stop to it but the AMA can't?
 
I would love to hear from others present. I would also love to hear from the people who said Chris was out there more than I stated or that he does this all the time. Tell me when all this happened. And again you made your decision on heresay and not actual facts of the day. I do not appreciate you callling Chris a cheater. Very professional on your part. Be done with it all you want but everyone sees by your post what you are and are all about.You must have spent a lot of time coming up with that story.You want to do things on heresay. I was told that gate picks for first motos were chosen not by computer but by the riders number. So all of you that rode check your number and your gate pick and see if this is true. Never heard of that being done before. But that was heresay I did not check it out. All I will say now is people, read carefully because his story is full of a number of untrue statements. As far as AMA is concerned I was never given the name of the referee and although I called AMA twice I have yet to hear from them. Sad that I have to get on Pit racer in front of the whole world to get results. I too do not ofen get on here. It is the first time I have ever posted anything although I very often get on here to read and see what is going on. I have email I seldom ever check. I don't have a face book. I barely use my cell phone. This seemed to be only way I could bring to light what really happened. I wanted everyone there to know the truth and that Chris does not cheat, does not do this all the time. He went out in ONE wrong practice and exited when flagged. He was AUTHORIZED to be out there on the 450 last practice out. Perhaps if Mr. Wolfe had communicated with the gate worker and not all of the riders, parents ect. he would have gotten it straight.
 
This is what I saw from my perspective. I don't know either party. I am not taking any sides, just relaying what I saw.

I was there on Friday when Carr, Howard and someone else in the A class were Black flagged for being in the C class practice. The AMA Official spoke to them and DQ'd them from anymore practices on Friday. I did see a few others get black flagged including Chris for being in the wrong practice Sat. I believe there was a crash and the practice was red flagged and the A riders went back and were sent out with C class by Gate guy and flagged off by finish line with Black flag and everyone did get off the track without incident.
 
Go whine somewhere else? This is probably a good indication of how the issue was treated at the track. Good job! Should be proud! Judging by the 2nd post, the accusation made earlier that you took some time to fabricate the first post, probably hit the nail on the head.

I seriously do not see where any of this warranted a DQ. As stated, the kid was AUTHORIZED to be on the track. He didnt sneak on in one of the far corners or anything from what I can tell.

3 words come to mind that best describe the "claimed" issue and end result.

Incompetence.

Ignorance.

Irrational.


The bad part is, im sure there are many people who work for Action Sports who are great people, and im sure even Mr. Wolfe has some good in him. However, this was just a ridiculous unnecessary outcome to such a simple issue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top