An Interesting Read

Yea weege hit it on the nose there. Saw that last week.

And to think fox sport 1 won't let him take Ralph shaheens job....
 
Elliott4179 said:
With all the talk about the cost of races and the decline in racers I thought this was an interesting read.
http://racerxonline.com/2015/06/28/redux-the-influencers-part-2
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That is a great article and from my perspective, I am in total agreement with were the the article say's the sport is today. I can't speak for the affordability, gates or chances of going pro in the past because I wasn't raised around MX but I know that the topics presented in this article seem to be right inline with what, I observe at the tracks and in the MX community. Its a great sport and I am definitely immersed in it but it is expensive (some say it isn't, I'm not sure what planet they live on), time consuming and frustrating at times but my son and I still love it and hope to stay at it, as long as, he stays healthy, is into it, keeps his grades up and my finances can handle it. I still feel that the biggest barrier to entry is the cost. Its no ones fault, not the tracks/promoters, the motorcycle manufacturers, gasoline prices, trailer companies, tent, camper or RV manufacturers but it is all this together that keeps the average joe from plucking down a few thousand dollars for a bike, getting some kind of vehicle to transport the bike, pay for the gas and entry fee to get into the track then pay to race. Have the kid crash and replace the plastics, bars and pipe that he just destroyed, take the time to fix it, do the maintenance on the bike (if they know how) then hit the practice track during the week with all the expenses that I mentioned above and don't forget the riding gear and safety equipment, Oh, I almost forgot the clutch that my son fried during the week of practice and then back at it the following weekend. So, until the economy in the great US of A dramatically improves, I don't see a large influx of people getting into MX. They will stick to the bread and butter sports like football, baseball, basketball, soccer and swimming etc. My kids have played them all, even travel sports and it is no where near the cost or time spent, of MX. Btw, we have also tried piano, guitar and horse back riding and still no where close to MX. So, I think the numbers will stay pretty much the same for most tracks, however with the occasional exception (track, event or series) and this is where MX will stay, until outside factors create changes, good or bad.
 
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It is very hard to justify going to races at this stage with my son. Being on a 50, he is basically just learning the sport and by no means competitive. What he needs more then anything is seat time and more seat time. If you go to an open practice he can ride all day for $25. I paid $50 yesterday for entry into 2 classes and he got a total of 30 min of seat time including practice. As you all know I HATE open practice but if you look at it purely form a $ stand point, there is just no comparison. We are racers so it is a moot point for us but the average Joe that has so many options will pick seat time over another plastic trophy.
Its a catch 22. Tracks want more classes to make $. Racers want more time and less cost.
I don't think any track will ever try limited classes in hopes of a larger turnout, but I will never stop asking for it.
 
Bottom line is this. Take Southwest Ohio for example. When I was a kid, kids that raced, a lot of the parents worked for GM, Ford, the Chrysler plant in Dayton......manufactures that all supplied to them locally. These were great paying jobs........great benefits, and they had the disposable income for racing.

Today, these jobs are GONE. Sure people are working, but they are not making the incomes they were at those jobs, and with Overtime, no where near what those jobs paid 20 and 25 years ago. Then the expense of car insurance, Health insurance, etc sky rocketing. Kids go to public schools still, but now they have hundreds of dollars each year in school fees (yeah only a portion of us working pay for everyone that does not also), pay to play school sports.......the cost for a family in todays world have sky rocketed from where they were just 25 years ago.

Yeah, the cost of MX has gone up about with inflation........but income has not, and the cost of everyday living has jumped dramatically for most families.

One thing I will never do.....and that is finance motocross. I see families at the track every week that I kind of scratch my head on sometimes. And just wonder how in the world. I also know a family that MX cost them a marriage and a bankruptcy. I believe there are many that finance everything to make it happen!
 
John250 said:
and with Overtime, no where near what those jobs paid 20 and 25 years ago.
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In my occupation, an abundance of OT has always been there, many, many times mandatory. When you work straight 40's, it's always a shell shock how quick the paycheck is gone. But you also reach a point in your life when you decide that you're not gonna waste away your life working continuous overtime just to support a habit. ( a hobby and obsession in our case). Wears you down, with only memories and photographs to look back on.
 
I agree with Mike Emery in that article. Here's my take on it. What I see is that the segments of the sport have become much more defined. Back in the day, you went to either the CRA or AMA tracks and you raced. That's all that was available-- that was what MX consisted of.

Now, we have to take a few things into consideration. There are still the old stand bys. Then add riders that only go to practice tracks, vintage guys, Vet guys, etc. Sites like this, and the internet in general, have provided access to far more information regarding what events are happening beyond what we had 20 years ago (which consisted of the CRA schedule that we stuck to the refrigerator every February). The MX cake has gotten a great deal larger in comparison to the amount of icing we have available to frost it, so we have to spread that icing thinner in order to get the whole cake covered. That's why it seems like the events are more sparsely populated.

If the manufacturers are looking at bike sales as indicators, then you have to take into consideration that the new technology has stagnated slightly in the past decade before the past year or two, so alot of riders have been racing 5 or more year old bikes successfully.

We're forgetting that a kid that knew how to ride, showed up at LL on a 25+ year old bike and almost won on it. There are Bomber, 2 Stroke, 125 classes out there, so the cost of the bikes shouldn't be that big of a factor. Gas prices may be an issue to an extent.

If you NEED a $40K motor home, and a 3500 diesel truck to pull a couple of brand new bikes to race, then yes, cost is paramount. If you REALLY want to ride and race, a used pickup truck and a 15 year old 125 will get ya on the gate for $5K. A set of gear can be had off of Ebay for $75... Problem is all that frugality isn't fashionable.

It's my humble opinion that alot of guys want to talk about riding and racing, but for some reason, they make excuses instead showing up and actually riding. Other than that, I think the sport is alive and well, and the diversity helps the draw, and it keeps guys in the sport that would have been out to pasture at the same age 20 years ago. --L*64
 
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A problem is the separation between the lower and upper class in the sport has widened. New folks on the lower end just don't think they can compete with the busses, dual axel RVs, multiple bikes, etc. Remember when factory guys drove in box trucks?

What we might call the standard is a toy hauler, new bike, new gear, etc. The days of the fast guys showing up in a pickup and a couple year old bike seem to have past. Entry level seems out of reach for the new guy... Just to plan showing up and hauling ass and having fun with friends and family isn't what it used to be. Too much of a popularity contest. Just having a place to ride isn't good enough. It needs to be prepped to perfection always... Of course, there is an exception to every rule...

I'm not sure the price of bikes, gear, entry fees, etc. have all that much to do with folks not getting in, staying in, riding, racing, etc. in the grand scheme of things. Peeps spent money on extra curricular hobbies everyday in exchange for fun. If they can't have fun at it, they'll find something else to spend their money on... Well, until they're hooked... then it's a bottomless pit and a disease... similar to a drug... yeah, a drug. MX is my drug. I'm addicted...hopelessly addicted... No way out... living anyway.... :)
 
You're right in that there is a big gap between the upper and lower classes so to speak, but I'm not sure everybody that rides dirt bikes is out to conquer the world. The couple year old bike guys in a pickup truck may not race, but they probably go to "practice" tracks and ride. We have to count them in to the community when it comes to paying entry fees and supporting the sport. Unless the article is pertaining only to riders making an attempt to be competitive at the upper end of racing? The lower class riders may have just as much fun, or more than the upper class riders, and I think that's something that the article fails to address. Some of us don't want to go in that deep financially even if they could. --L*64
 
You can be real competitive in amatuers with a bike off the show room.

People getting introduced into the sport aren't finding nice used bikes on Craigslist because they don't know what Theyre lookong for or even how to get those bikes competitive.

It's tough. Atleast grass root mx racing doesn't require huge rigs and $10,000 bikes. But it does require some knowledge. It's just too bad you can't get a new bike for what they used to cost....
 
At least the industry magazines are talking about the issue. That's a positive.

Can't speak for all the magazines, but Motocross Action discuss's the problems frequently in their articles and making an attempt to steer public opinion to get the trends turned around. And a strict budget racer like me appreciates that candidness.

John250 said:
Bottom line is this. Take Southwest Ohio for example. When I was a kid, kids that raced, a lot of the parents worked for GM, Ford, the Chrysler plant in Dayton......manufactures that all supplied to them locally. These were great paying jobs........great benefits, and they had the disposable income for racing.

Today, these jobs are GONE. Sure people are working, but they are not making the incomes they were at those jobs, and with Overtime, no where near what those jobs paid 20 and 25 years ago. Then the expense of car insurance, Health insurance, etc sky rocketing. Kids go to public schools still, but now they have hundreds of dollars each year in school fees (yeah only a portion of us working pay for everyone that does not also), pay to play school sports.......the cost for a family in todays world have sky rocketed from where they were just 25 years ago. Yeah, the cost of MX has gone up about with inflation........but income has not, and the cost of everyday living has jumped dramatically for most families.
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I'm thinking you're spot on here.
 
If I had an unlimited supply of disposable income Id ride brand new trick everything in a huge ass rig with a paid driver and mechanic. I'd hit every track across the country. Wouldn't care about going pro. Or even trying to make money doing it.
 
Lol.... did you guys read a different article? His biggest point was people are still spending money hand over fist on other things like Razors and other SxS , boats ect. MX has shifted to practice tracks and not races. People are busy and want to have fun then go home not sit around a track all day for 30 mins of riding. In the 2nd article he also said MX needs to find a way to offer those people a solution that works for them and the tracks.
 
People are busy and want to have fun then go home not sit around a track all day for 30 mins of riding. In the 2nd article he also said MX needs to find a way to offer those people a solution that works for them and the tracks.[/QUOTE]
This is the exact point I made months ago and now there is an article stating this. I will go back and dig up my post from last winter. I remember that my idea's were not very well accepted.
 
So, why do people make time for the bigger events?

I get the hectic life part, people have tighter schedules than ever, we are becoming the overload communities when it comes to our busy schedules. People don't have time.......Unless they make time.

Not too many promoters are willing to take the bet that less classes will equal fuller gates. Not when your gambling with a few thousands dollars. Id say if it leads to a shorter day, more racing, shouldn't those classes be worth more money? The convenience of the express lane! That would be the only way to try that. This is a business, it isn't unicef.

To be perfectly honest, I think practice is a win-win. The riders get what they want, the promoter gets a relatively laid back lower risk day, not a lot invested, you make steady money. Granted it isn't the big chunks like the big events, but you don't work nearly as hard either, so its fair. Plus you don't have to coordinate 40 people. Tough to beat practice in my neck of the woods.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
So, why do people make time for the bigger events?

I get the hectic life part, people have tighter schedules than ever, we are becoming the overload communities when it comes to our busy schedules. People don't have time.......Unless they make time.

Not too many promoters are willing to take the bet that less classes will equal fuller gates. Not when your gambling with a few thousands dollars. Id say if it leads to a shorter day, more racing, shouldn't those classes be worth more money? The convenience of the express lane! That would be the only way to try that. This is a business, it isn't unicef.

To be perfectly honest, I think practice is a win-win. The riders get what they want, the promoter gets a relatively laid back lower risk day, not a lot invested, you make steady money. Granted it isn't the big chunks like the big events, but you don't work nearly as hard either, so its fair. Plus you don't have to coordinate 40 people. Tough to beat practice in my neck of the woods.
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Except for those who want to race, its not win / win for them.

The challenge is to find a new way to make it win/ win for racers.
 
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