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Narcan

Discussion in 'Non-Moto' started by GeorgiePorgie, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. GeorgiePorgie

    GeorgiePorgie PR Founding Father

    Location:
    Ohio the 440
    Racing Number:
    740
    Allowing the public access to Narcan sounds like the most beautiful, warm, and loving thing to do today amidst the heroin epidemic.


    But what is this really doing ? Is it saving lives? Or is it giving already addicted users false hope that hey will be saved if they overdose ? Or does it effectively stop the heroin problem ? After one overdose do the users wake up and never touch it again? Or do they scramble for more Narcan?


    What do you guys think? Trying to think outside of my narrow mind. Because in my opinion, the answers that we are being served by politicians aren't worth the dog s**t in a bag at the metro parks.
     
  2. ohiowildman939

    ohiowildman939 PR Member

    Location:
    Over there
    Racing Number:
    3.141592653589753
    Well, there was a junkie in our county that overdosed in one town. They saved him with narcan just to have him od again two days later next town over. He didn't survive that one. I have mixed feelings on it and I don't know what the right answer is.
     
  3. Motodad23

    Motodad23 PR Member

    Racing Number:
    23
    I think it's ridiculous let the idiots od rid the world of worthless people. They get that stuff free yet there are people paying $300 for an epi pen to save them from something they didn't get addicted to or start doing cause it was cool.
     
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  4. sturd

    sturd PR Addict

    If it was just heroin, the problem wouldn't be much worse than it ever has been. The new
    problem is that it's cut with chinese fentanyl and nobody seems to understand how
    to use that without killing themselves. Note I'm not saying heroin isn't a problem, it's screwed
    up too many people that were close to me.

    Chinese fentanyl maybe made by some of the residents of Trump tower, who knows?
    Nobody checking them out like we would a Syrian refugee.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...ced-by-rich-chinese-who-invest-cash-for-visas
     
  5. GeorgiePorgie

    GeorgiePorgie PR Founding Father

    Location:
    Ohio the 440
    Racing Number:
    740
    You can die from fentanyl from reputable pharmacy companies. It stops your drive to breathe. You need to be monitored on it. Closely. I give it daily. And need to remind patients to breathe. All it takes is 50-100micrograms to stop you from breathing for a short while. That's 2 ml or 2 cc's

    People shouldn't be messing with fentanyl period.
     
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  6. BILL88L

    BILL88L PR Member

    Sorry but it is not fair to a say that every one of the massive amount of people all addicted to heroin are worthless. I never even knew someone that did the stuff and 2 weeks ago a good friend of mine OD'd at 51. Great guy, great family, give you the shirt his back, you name it - he just let it get him. He was far from poor or without hope and certainly not worthless.

    The stuff is all over the place and out of control. There was bad batch going around Columbus a week ago and there were 48 OD's in 48 hours.

    I am paying close attention to the younger generation I know, including my kids in college, because this this stuff is the most physically addicting stuff ever and it is no longer hard or expensive to get. It is also not an inner city or "junkie" drug any longer. Never say never.

    As far as Narcan I guess to me there are worse things to spend public money on if it is going to save lives but there has to be some kind of plan for what do with them immediately to get them help. This is a really complex issue that I certainly can't answer. I do think this will be/already is the single largest narcotic problem this company has ever faced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
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  7. ktrop251

    ktrop251 PR Member

    Location:
    Wadsworth
    Racing Number:
    251
    Oh boy, let's start on the first topic, heroin. It's a highly addictive narcotic. Okay, we all know that. So, when does it seem like a good idea to ingest or inject something as toxic as that into your body? I'm not going to say the people are stupid that do it because I've known people who were educated, wealthy, and successful that had issues with the drug. It comes down to the addiction and what feeds it. Everyone is different.

    Now fentanyl, people saying these drug dealers are now spiking their drugs with it! Hold on a second, you mean to tell me that a black market drug dealer isn't selling exactly what he said it was?! Not a reputable sales person?! I need to speak to.. an official? What do you think is going to happen? They will find ways to cheapen it up and still sell as much or get more people hooked because it's "stronger".

    Okay, viewer discretion advised. Some drug dealers get too many orders, too many people know who they are, know their product. Their name is getting out there. The easiest way to stop that without going out and shooting people (which has no profit) is get some fentanyl, gas, oil, lighter fluid, whatever, and sell it laced with or as heroin. They are "thinning the heard". Polulation control. Killing off the amount of people who could rat on them. Obviously a horrible thought and unimaginable by most of us but it's the sad truth.

    Finally Narcan, I believe there is a place for it to be publicly available. However, at some point it has to stop. Your body can build up tolerances to anything. Also, what are the long term side effects of this drug? Drug courts don't work. You can't scare or fine someone out of this type of addiction. It's a lifelong struggle for a lot of people. Yes, it's sad to see but no one forced that lifestyle on them. People make their choices for themselves. Heroin isn't a one time party drug either. It's a lifestyle kind of drug. You live, breathe, eat, and eventually die for it.

    Needless to say, I've seen plenty of people struggle with it. Some of my friends have been in and out of rehab and prison over it. It's sad but this is something only that person can change. It's only getting worse, someone I know personally very well is a juvenile probation officer, she sees twelve year old kids addicted to it. 12. One two. Jesus. I'm 26 and when I was in school the worst thing happening was Johnny coming to school with an eighth of the Devils lettuce.

    End rant.
     
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  8. k01

    k01 PR Elite

    Observe once again the breakdown our civil society.

    Yes, this problem has been around forever but look at how prevalent it is today in all communities. Laced doses tragically take lives rapidly in numbers that make the situation abundantly clear.

    Narcan and always use with a buddy is the government response. A response that of course in government's typical myopic fashion never begins to address the real problem.
     
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  9. GeorgiePorgie

    GeorgiePorgie PR Founding Father

    Location:
    Ohio the 440
    Racing Number:
    740
    Kids in urichsville are doing spice. It's where they soak the dope leaves in bleach, liquid plumber, pine sol...all kinds of bad s**t.

    What the hell happened to the DARE program? 4th grade kids need to taken through these classes and shown graphic images of what happens to people when they ingest chemicals.

    I know the dare program was deemed to be a failure as it didn't prevent kids from trying drugs. I think if they revamped it and paraded them in front of someone that is brain dead on life support because of it....then maybe we can reach them.

    It tears me up to see these young kids destroying themselves. Most of them are decent kids coming from decent hard working families. What it does to the families is unimaginable. You don't want to see it first hand.

    Something past Narcan has to be done. Narcan isn't fixing anything. Hell we don't even really use Narcan after surgery we just let them wake up with time and then pull the breathing tube. But The people on heroin don't get monitoring and a breathing tube. The madness needs to end.
     
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  10. Motodad23

    Motodad23 PR Member

    Racing Number:
    23
    Most kids today know the dangers of drugs they see the stories in their social media. They just have to say "NO" when offered to them. Same with adults. It's a choice! I had friends in school that smoked pot I didn't. It was my choice. Maybe they're into harder stuff today or maybe they're not even around anymore I don't know that was their choice. The change in this problem is gonna have to be people saying no cause I doubt anyone else is going to do something. The devil is taking over. More people need to blow the dust off their Bible and open it up. If you don't have one let me know I'll get you one.
     
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  11. ktrop251

    ktrop251 PR Member

    Location:
    Wadsworth
    Racing Number:
    251
    They could implement a work release program. But what about the people who aren't hooked on drugs that can't find jobs? It really is tricky.

    I agree that it's sad to see the younger generation kill themselves or destroy their lives because of drugs. I hung around with a lot of the kids in my school that smoked pot and took pills but I never got into any of those activities. I don't think I drank my first beer until I was 20 years old. Let alone pot or pills that weren't prescribed to me. Most of those guys are either dead, in prison or in rehab. Very few have made it out successful. The ones that have live every day reminded of that addiction. It's a choice people have to make and unfortunately these days it's so common that society sees it as acceptable or fixable. It's not fixable, once you're in, you're in for life. Most wind up on drugs to keep them off those drugs for long periods of time, sometimes forever depending on how strong their addiction was. People need to wake up. This should been seen as more of a warning sign. Notifying the public that this is the last resort.

    Drug courts are a deterrent for most, not an end. If that's not bad enough, the drug courts are overwhelmed, they can't keep up with the mass numbers being incarcerated for drug charges. In Norton they have a three times rule. The cops can show up and Narcan someone three times before charges can be pressed for possessing and using. All because the drug courts are too full. Too many drug addicts and not enough employees. Crazy to think that's the way of the world anymore.
     
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  12. NQ1965

    NQ1965 PR Elite

    Location:
    Heath, Ohio
    Man, I was just thinking about this last week, wondering when it would pop up as a conversation topic.
    It was being discussed on our local news (Newark/Columbus) because of a wicked batch of the drug followed by a huge number of OD's, in like a 36hr span of time. They were dropping like flies.

    I'm with KO on this one. It's a sign of bigger problems in our society.
     
  13. Motodad23

    Motodad23 PR Member

    Racing Number:
    23
    I have temporary custody of a the sweetest 2 yr old little girl because of a abusive drug addicted dad. Now as far as I know he never hit the little girl but beat the crap out of the mom. We have her because the mom allowed the drugs in the house. Its a sad situation but that little girl is better off with us. She loves dirt bikes too I'll have her at BC Sunday
     
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  14. GeorgiePorgie

    GeorgiePorgie PR Founding Father

    Location:
    Ohio the 440
    Racing Number:
    740
    http://www.13abc.com/home/headlines/Narc-Me-parties-are-a-deadly-new-twist-to-Heroin-376440131.html


    Narcan parties. :confused: You don't say that I didn't say?:eek: well this was out before the thread. But I did some google searching with with just narcan party. And Toledo ohio comes up. Interesting article. They are popping up all over as well. PA, WV....

    Drug dealers are hosting narcan parties where they allow everyone to get so high, and if they get too much they give them the antidote. Perfect for selling more heroin. Criminal wins again. Addiction rate, and mortality rate will go up exponentially now. 2017 numbers will be shooting up like a rocket on the exponential curve.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
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  15. NQ1965

    NQ1965 PR Elite

    Location:
    Heath, Ohio
    PBS Frontline aired a documentary on the issue earlier this year. Very interesting in discussing the drugs revival as well all how easily normal well to do average folks get drawn into using Heroin and then their lives ruined by it. Big pharma companies and our government owns a big piece of the blame in this.

    http://www.pbs.org/video/2365674182/

    The video discusses how people fall into addiction as a result of taking doctor prescribed pain meds. Spirals out of control from there.

    It's actually a difficult program to watch because it's so sad to see what it does to people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  16. hershey

    hershey PR Elite

    Location:
    Ozone Layer
    Racing Number:
    01
    From my extensive experience with orthopedic doctors I have found that they push the pain meds heavily. Its almost like they get commission from giving the script. They just cant understand why you wouldnt want to take them and at times have treated me like I was doing myself harm by not taking the script.
     
  17. k01

    k01 PR Elite

    Opioid prescribing has been a hot topic recently. The State of Ohio has been involved through it's many agencies and professional boards. Doctor shopping is supposedly been reduced through the recently initiated state prescription reporting and tracking system. Professional continuing education credits have been offered through the state on the subject. National CE providers have placed increased emphasis on this topic as well.
     
  18. hershey

    hershey PR Elite

    Location:
    Ozone Layer
    Racing Number:
    01
    Dude, get off pitracer. You're getting married in a few hours!
     
  19. john lilly

    john lilly PR Addict

    Location:
    Canton
    Racing Number:
    548
    Very interesting documentary. I do find it very sad and scary for anyone that has this going on in their life. I talk to my kids about drugs and have taken them to open forums, where drug addicts and Professionals in the field of addiction speak, in hopes that they will stay away from these drugs. However, you never know.
     
  20. CW95

    CW95 PR Member

    I know this thread's viability has since long passed, but I still wanted to chuck in my .02 for anyone who may read...

    Who is to blame for this epidemic?
    I think doctors have had a hand in this. The narrative is it begins with an addiction to prescription pain killers that transitions to heroin.

    I'll add an experience I had a few years ago when I fractured my shoulder...

    -A few years ago I suffered a broken shoulder, and had periodic visits with my specialist-totaling about 4 visits from initial encounter to discharge. At every visit, I was offered another opioid script!
    He had great bedside manner, and I appreciated his conservative approach that spared me surgery, but it was alarming. I hadn't used the pain pills beyond the first few days, let alone nearly 6 weeks since the accident!

    -Do I think he was intentionally pushing addictive narcotics on me? No.
    -Was he trying to make sure I was pain-free and cared for? Yes.

    Now, let's substitute in a patient who doesn't sport the macho pain tolerance us motocross riders have, and replay this scenario.

    It's not a stretch to see that this would be (and is) the perfect storm for some. They have a low pain threshold/tolerance, they have zero knowledge about how addictive the narcotics they're being prescribed are, and they have a doctor with an earnest desire to care for their patient in every possible way.

    Is it any surprise this has become a nationwide crisis?

    What's the solution? Ideally, a healthier culture. One more inclined to become more active, eat healthier, and preserve their bodies, especially their joints.

    Realistically (unfortunately) I think it requires nothing short of an effort that rivals the Manhattan Project to design a class of pain medications that effectively addresses pain and consequently makes opioids obsolete.

    - Studies have shown (go to the CDC's website and read about the topic until your heart is content), and the common narrative is, is that their effectiveness for chronic-pain is moderate at best and most discontinue because the opioids doesn't manage the pain well enough in consideration with the laundry list of side effects.

    Beyond the setting of acute pain, opioids aren't ideal for chronic use (the setting which dependency and addiction typically evolves from).

    We need better, refined medications.

    ------
    As for addicts...

    -Are they entirely responsible for the addiction? Or should they be absolved from the responsibility of their actions?

    I think a little of both. Should they have tried it? Nope. But once that chemical touches their brain, I believe their brains aren't the same nor ever will be.

    A metaphor a M.D., Ph.D (the smartest of the smart) once told me, after you've introduced any drug to your brain it's never the same. It's like placing a layer of paint on a wall. You can never get back to the base layer of paint.

    Heroin is incredibly addictive and more powerful than we'll ever know unless we have tried it. Some describe their first experience with heroin as "being hugged by an angel." Yikes.

    Here's another personal story to supplement...

    -A buddy on my dorm floor in college was eager to try heroin (for reasons beyond me) and he eventually got around to it even after I warned him multiple times that he doesn't know what he's up against.
    After he tried it, he was different in many ways. A few years later, he was in and out of jail, etc. Luckily he's almost 2 years sober!

    I remember asking him when he knew he was addicted.
    ....He said, "I knew I was addicted after my first time."

    For many, I believe a drug that's powerful enough to set the throws of addiction into high gear after its first use is beyond platitudes of "pulling yourself up by your boot straps." These people need help, both from their families and on behalf of professionals.
    ---

    So do we deny these people Narcan?

    First, by the accounts of many, this epidemic has touched the lives of many, and it hasn't shown itself to be predominately within a single social or economic class. This affects everyone from the homeless to the wealthy.

    I understand it's a black hole of resources and it gums up courts, hospitals, so on and so forth...

    ...but to deny those who have over-dosed their remedy would be nothing short of obscene!

    Can you imagine the protests or riots if major metropolitan areas were to assume a policy? Sure the hospitals would free right up...

    Instead...

    Morgues, Funeral Homes and Cemeteries would overflow.

    This is hardly a solution and it's beyond the realm of what the American public believes in and would tolerate.

    Believe me there are plenty of measures that can be taken to tidy up the ledger of what's lost in narcan freebies. For starters, discontinue the billions of dollars in foreign aid. I think that'd pass with relative ease as it'd address a common problem that is beyond political party lines.

    For now, let's get people to start taking better care of themselves, doctors to stop liberally prescribing these meds, and let's fund research for new classes for pain medications that doesn't drive someone to descend into a morbid life of addiction.

    In the meantime, for God's sake, give the Narcan; and spare us the mosaic of slumped over, dead Americans denied a remedy, and consequently, life. ​
     
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