How a LL title was lost 30+ b/c 1-1-dnf video

hersh552 said:
No matter what position he placed...definately a "c" class move. he might have ridden like a "b" rider the entire week....but at that moment...a bit of "c" class ridin impaired his judgement.
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I disagree. If you read what Robin posted, #75 was going across trying to avoid a muddy patch. In riding practice on Monday I saw that many times -- there were several areas that beat down into two defined dry spots people would aim for.

I'm sorry, but I put that blame squarely on Mr. 1-1-DNF. On the parade lap he should have seen that it was muddy in the middle, and at that moment in the race he should have been expecting the rider that is slightly ahead of him to try and cross away from the mud. I would have completely expected that guy to cross in front of me to avoid the muddy middle and I would have never gotten into that crash. No racer on here is going to tell me they would ride straight through mud just out of courtesy to the rider behind him. Every one of us would have done the same thing.

A huge part of racing in these B/C events is calculating what the riders in front of you are going to do, especially on the opening lap. Mr. 1-1-DNF just expected to blow right by, never even considering that the rider in front of him would try to cross over away from the mud. He should have used a little patience there and let things sort out on the first lap.
 
Good call pit, I agree. With 1-1 scores and knowing the finishes for other guys were all over the board why not be patient. It wasn't a 5 lap race, he had 20 minutes so let things settle down then start picking guys off.
 
PitRacer said:
I disagree. If you read what Robin posted, #75 was going across trying to avoid a muddy patch. In riding practice on Monday I saw that many times -- there were several areas that beat down into two defined dry spots people would aim for.

I'm sorry, but I put that blame squarely on Mr. 1-1-DNF. On the parade lap he should have seen that it was muddy in the middle, and at that moment in the race he should have been expecting the rider that is slightly ahead of him to try and cross away from the mud. I would have completely expected that guy to cross in front of me to avoid the muddy middle and I would have never gotten into that crash. No racer on here is going to tell me they would ride straight through mud just out of courtesy to the rider behind him. Every one of us would have done the same thing.

A huge part of racing in these B/C events is calculating what the riders in front of you are going to do, especially on the opening lap. Mr. 1-1-DNF just expected to blow right by, never even considering that the rider in front of him would try to cross over away from the mud. He should have used a little patience there and let things sort out on the first lap.
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And I couldn't disagree more with ya Pit. Yes, Mr. 1-1 should have been patient however, that doesn't excuse Mr. 9th place overall to go from the right side of the track all the way to the left! I don't care what the conditions were. I can clearly see the main line to the outside was hard packed and the main race line. Sooooo, because there is mud all up the inside down that section why would Mr. 9th overall choose to start that section way to the inside? I know why! cause the "c" class part of him made him brain fart and choose that line. Then, the "b" class part of him said "...oh yeah, this inside line blows with all the mud, I better switch to the outside race line". That is the point where the "b" class part of him should have gave a quick glance to his left to see if anyone was using the main line before he made his drastic change of lines. Its pretty simple.
 
And on the parade lap Mr 1-1 finishes saw the inside sucked. Thats why he went wide and to the outside. On second thought, he WAS being patient. Rider infront of him goes inside....PERFECT...he then goes outside to the main line. Mr. 1-1 would have breezed past Mr. 9th place overall in that section.... Mr. 9th overall thought "better gaurd my inside going into this right handed corner". Then, once he got ontop of the jumped moved straight across Mr. 1-1's line. Mr. 9th overall didn't need to race through the mud. Just hesitate a bit, let Mr. 1-1 float past and fall into the main line (after you take a quick glance to the left of course!)
 
If you go to 2:03 in the video and pause it right there, you can clearly see that Mr. 9th was to the left of the middle of the track (not the inside) and was already pointing across the track to the outside to take the good line. At this point he is clearly about 3-4 bike lengths ahead of Mr. DNF. Pause it again at 2:06 and you can even more clearly see that the rider ahead is aiming to the outside. Mr. DNF just kept on the gas and jumped right into him.

There is no way that the rider IN FRONT can be blamed for what happens to the rider behind him. These guys were not side-by-side and #75 took a left into him, #75 was at least 4 bike lengths ahead when he started crossing to the left. Mr. DNF just thought he could squeeze through and it obviously didn't work out.

If you are ever trying to pass me Jay you better watch out because I would do the same thing! haha.
 
Jay,

You weren't there and are way off base on this one.......... what you don't realize is that where you are saying the guy went from way inside to outside is on the right hand off camber turn before the straight away. The way inside line went over a boob hump and into a rut that went from inside to 3/4 of the track to the outside. If you went outside and around the boob hump to the way outside of the off camber (which I was doing), the riders on the inside would be coming over into your line every time just like you see in the video, I would time it and cut behind them into the way inside line but was watching where they were to see if I could go outside or inside. This is clearly the fault of the downed rider....... he pushed into the side of the rider in front of him (who always has the right of way to go whereever he wants) got tangled, bar swapped and went down....... his fault.

I have my own helmet cam videos, including this moto that I've not compressed or cut down yet that will show clearly what I'm talking about. Mr "C" class was doing exactly what 75% of the riders were doing by holding the inside line to the outside line up the off camber. You have to be careful to make your passes when / where you can especially on the first lap of the race. Once I get some time and get my videos cleaned up, I'll post and you'll get a better idea of what I'm talking about. Plus I think my camera aim was better than his and you can see more than 5 feet ahead.
 
If Mr 1-1-DNF had got the holeshot, guess he would not have had to mess with Mr 9th place......guess what, you have to be smart and finish the race. The fastest guy does not always win because he does not make good decisions. First lap, you better be on your toes until things spread out a bit. I would just say that this was his "Bubba" move of the the week....and he should have had a bit more patience.
 
I see what you are saying. The inside on the "boob" lead you into the main line? right? I guess that makes a bit more sense. In my eyes I would have been more aware of the fact that some people go around that "boob" jump and jump that whole table. Especially on the first lap I would have been conscious of that, and Mr. 9th overall was NOT. After Mr. 9th overall went through the rut that leads you to 3/4 across the tabletop he should have stayed there (just incase someone did take the outside and was gonna jump the whole thing) for a split second before moving the rest of the way across the track.
I just can't see blaming Mr. 1-1 there. He chose an alternate line from the guy infront of him, stayed straight and jumped a jump. Same way Rocket was doin it on the Hussy. Rocket- when you did take that outside, did you always make sure nobody was coming across infront of you? I'm sure that would be hard as hell to do. railing a rut and committing to a jump, only to have a rider ride his bike underneath yours while you are in mid air? hmmm....I don't know...like you said I wasn't there.
 
Jay,

While I was taking the outside line 90% of the time, each time I took it, I was very aware of what the riders were doing from the inside....... if someone got the jump on me and was block passing me from the inside to keep me from jumping the table top......... I let off and didn't jump down the back side. (You couldn't jump down the back side from the inside line / rut that came from the boob hump.) Or, I would square the turn at the bottom of the outside line and cross behind the rider coming from the inside and jump down the backside towards the inside then and be on the right hand of the straight away where the crash occurred in that video. It was a see what you had open at the time type turn / jump depending on the other riders every lap. It was a tricky section and I found it way smoother and less energy to go outside and jump down the side either inside or outside depending on traffic.
 
That sounds sketchy as all hell. The two lines almost connect on that tabletop. I think if either rider were aware like you say you were, then that wreck could have been avoided.
 
That's just the way the track worked in...... the inside rut ran almost all the way to the outside (leaving about 1 foot on the edge beyond the rut) and with everyone going for it.......... they are trying to block you from the inside. I like to think of myself as being smarter than the average bear, so I was always heads up there and looking to see what my options were depending on the other riders at the time I was there. I was trying to rail the outside, carry speed to jump the table top down and get more drive through the 2 singles if all worked out right for me. But some laps, the inside rider would be able to block me just right and I'd have to fall in behind him in order to not get tangled up with him............ or if he was really fast through the inside line........... I square up the turn and jump off the inside of the table and get him going down the straight by carrying more speed off the start of it. Just depends on what your option was at the time........... but running 1 - 1, you aren't looking at options as you're used to having no traffic........... I was good at Traffic due to my horrific starts all week!
 
There must be a 1-1 curse at LL in 30+ B. In 93 my dad went 1-1 in the first 2 motos. Then in the 3rd moto he was running 5th and we thought he had the O/A but he ended up with a 1-1-5 and the other guys went 2-3-2. The guy did like a kamikaze ghost ride at the finish line to give him 2nd in the moto. Dad still wishes he had that moto back.

Anyways, i thought you had to ride the bike you rode at the regionals at LL. Or at least the frame. This must not be true since Mr. 1-1-DNF got the bike 2 weeks ago.
 
beenridin said:
unbelievable...that bike was mangled. looks like someone was hurt too up on the tabletop.
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That was Chris Opliger up on the tabletop.I was watching from the Thor tower(THANKS! Pit and Carrie:D )wondering how he crashed up there.From my viewing point all I could see was flags waving and the Meds attending to Chris.looked like he was okay and finished the race but way back:(
At about :52 in, it looks like 1-1-DNF rode over someones arm.:eek:
Wonder if anyone got a vid of the finish? Couple guys going for position,at the flag, on a Honda and Kawi crashing into the wooden fence right below the Thor tower where I was up top.The whole thing shook from the impact.With Robin bailing off right behind them! What a finish to the week!!:D
 
Where was the flagger on the outside of the turn before that rythym section? After having flagged many of races over the years, I think someone may have been sleeping or not looking where they were supposed to be. If they had a flagger on the inside of that rythym section instead, well, I disagree with that.

Bummer for the cursed dude.
 
I say 2 things here ...

#1 Mr 1-1-DNF needs to point his helmet cam up a little more.

#2 Mr 1-1-DNF should have backed off, his fault. The dude that he hit was ahead of him when they started into the section. It was clear to me the dude was going to move into the outside line from the beginning, I would have backed off. But then again I am not an extremely aggressive rider.
 
Hey this is Opliger, after much searching I was able to find this info on CJ's bike. I am still trying to figure out how I ended up on the tabletop. But you are correct I did finish the race. Two days later I went to the doctor and foound out I had 3 dislocated ribs, two vertabrea were hooked together in my lower back and some bruising, but still moving and raced at the Holmes County fair on Thursday night.
 
Opliger,

That's one tough SOB to finish the race in that Condition......... no one can say that the Ohio guys aren't tough and going to do their best to finish each and every moto! I went over that bike just before you and it kicked me sideways and I jumped off the side of the camelback and landed on the grass on the downside of the outside of the jump (much like Chad Reed's path without his bike) but stayed on the bike, turned back onto the track in the sweeper and kept going. That was pretty scary leaving that single and seeing a bike laying directly in your path. Now if I was on a lighter bike than the Hussy, I think CJ's bike would have been OK, but since I like Heavy Hussy's............ well the damage is done!

You should bring your broken body up to Red Bud for the 19 - 20th for Vet Fest, Practice Friday, Race Saturday for the most fun Vet Race of the entire year. All Vet Classes starting at 18+ age groups. The whole Pitracer Posse is going and we're having a 2 stroke battle of death in the 18+ B/C class for fun (but you don't qualify since you ride a 2 stroke all the time!!! LOL)
 
Ok, so here is my video from that moto complete with first lap where you can see me jumping on CJ's bike and going off the side of the Camel back afterwards. This was just before Chris Opliger hit the bike and crashed onto the top of the table top......

I had to cut out laps 6, 7, and 8 to leave lap 9 in where I was trying to make a pass at the line for 8th place and lost out by 0.04 seconds and crashed into the fence after the finish line to end the whole week. Never give up........... right?

Anyway, you can see how there was no way to see his bike until you were right on it, and the Ohio guys did a good job of smashing his bike into smithereens with Rich Silvers, Chris Opliger, and myself all hitting it squarely on this first lap. We should all get better starts! Mine were horrific all week!

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbsEgOQDnto
 
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