Rough riding at Apple Cabin MX track.

G

Godfather

Noob
My name is Eric and this is my first post on here. I have two boys 7 and 12 who ride motocross. Some other parents at the track suggested this site to express my concerns regarding the rough riding at the apple cabin track.

We've been to Apple Cabin once last year and a few times this year already. It's a nice facility and close to our home in Seville, Ohio. My oldest son has an 85cc bike, and the younger a 50. When we've been to Malvarn the other riders have been very courteous in their riding. For some reason the riders in the apple cabin have been pushy and downright dangerous with their passing and riding way too fast. Alot of the other parents have been talking about it also, and the owners never seem to do anything to curb the behavior. The oldest son has been bumped and block passed by riders on 450's and even pushed off the track! The younger rider has had similar experiences on the small track. He has been blasted in the face with dirt by an older black boy on a full sized motocross bike, and this track is supposed to be for the pee wees!

I hoped that the apple cabin track would be a safe place for my boys to ride their bikes since it's close to the house. If something isn't done to enhance safety, not only will we not frequent the track, but even worse there will surely be serious accidents. Alot of the parents have been talking about it, so I wanted to bring this matter to light in the hopes of finding a solution to the problem. Any help would be appreciated so I can continue to bring the boys out to ride motocross there.
 
This is a good place to voice your concerns, track owners do frequent this site and usually take views into consideration.

A couple questions.....

Your older son on the 85, if I understand this he was on the main track? How fast is he in comparison to the main flow of that track? While no rider should EVER force another off the track in a practice session if he is much slower than a majority of the riders he shouldnt be out there. Fast riders will get frustrated with minis who are in the way. You need to remember that the main track is for big bikes and FAST mini riders. If he isnt a FAST mini rider then he belongs on the mini track.

The mini track is for FAST 50cc riders and all mini riders. Again if I am reading your post correctly your younger son was on the mini track on his 50? Is it a larger or faster 50cc machine or a PW50 type bike? Is he a faster 50cc rider? The same goes here, if he isnt a faster 50cc rider then he belongs on the pee wee track and NOT the mini track. Younger kids are not going to have the respect the older riders are, they are trying to go as fast as they can and have fun. Passing other riders is part of having fun. Getting roosted is part of motocross. Dont get me wrong, there should be respect also. There is a fine line there.

Last night I was there with my 2 kids on PW50's, we were on the pee wee track where they belong. I could be wrong but it sounds like you are putting your children on the wrong tracks.
 
I know track owners can't please everybody all the time but, have you expressed your concerns to the owner?

Although I expect some courteous behavior on open practice days, I know there will always be some goof balls just about everywhere you go. I think it's primarily your responsibility to teach your kids how to handle those situations. As you know they are going to run into this type of behavior the rest of there lives.

For the first few years I took my kids to open practice days when the big and little bikes were not split, I would ride with them/near them, (mostly behind them) to provide a buffer zone from other aggressive riders. Basically another rider would have to run into me or try to bully me before he could get to my kid.

I felt it was enough that the track owner's were providing us a place to play, I didn't need them trying to provide for my kids safety also.
 
I second talking to Frank and Dori. I can relate because I have an 8 year old KTM rider who gets bored with the Pee Wee track. However, he is not necessarily fast enough to be out with 85's and Pit Bike guys. I also will not let him ride the intermediate track if it is too congested. PS - if you are interested you can join a club like Amherst - have the track to yourself most of the time whenever you want. Good Luck!
 
Hey! You're not that fellow I got into it with a couple weeks ago are ya? If ya are, I thought we were cool after I apologized to your family for the F-bombs I dropped after I got tangled with your boy? Maybe not though b/c I thought your older boy was on a 125?

I've been hearing about the rough riding the past coupla weeks, but I've been riding pit bikes there since the track has been there, and I haven't seen any difference at all. I HAVE noticed that there have been alot more Pee Wee kids showing up to ride which is great, but IMO the parents have to understand that a track is there for whoever wants to ride on it if I understand the rules correctly. It's not JUST for their little Pee Wee Johnny, and everyone else belongs somewhere else. After the incident I was referring to last week, I talked to Frank about it (I know they are very religious, and I'm certain that they didn't appreciate my choice words either), and I promised to give more room to the kids when/if I'm passing. I was there last night, and I toned it down until the end when there wasn't many riders.

"The older black boy".... haha! That's got to be Wilmo's boy? He's really a great kid, and I think his dad is working with him on his riding. I know the kid well, and I know he wouldn't roost anybody on purpose. It really just comes with riding, although I have been behind him and I can assure ya that the bike throws some solid roost. No biggie though. I'd hate to say it, but adjusting your line to avoid the roost is something that your boy will need to learn.

In summary, the Cabin is a unique facility in that they have three tracks to suit. I'd keep the complaints to a minimum. We all ride bikes because it's something we enjoy doing. It's up to us to co-exist. There are fast guys, slow guys, kids, Vets, pit bikes, vintage guys, trail riders, quads, three wheelers... I'd talk to the individual riders that you have the problems with, and get it worked out at that level, rather than giving Frank and Dorae more to worry about. Heck-- ya might even make some new moto friends out of it. Hope the input helps. --L*64
 
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Positive first posts for newer members generally get a nicer, more welcoming feeling.

There are aggressive riders everywhere. Sorry you've encountered some.
 
I apologize if Mitchy was any grief for anyone on his 65 on the big track. I was trying to keep him out the way of the big dogs like Ames, Rodgers, and some others who was burning really fast laps.

Frank your doing a fine job...keep it up...see you next Thursday.
 
Zman said:
I apologize if Mitchy was any grief for anyone on his 65 on the big track. I was trying to keep him out the way of the big dogs like Ames, Rodgers, and some others who was burning really fast laps.

Frank your doing a fine job...keep it up...see you next Thursday.
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well I have kept my mouth shut for long enough. first of all its not franks job to babysit parents of minis. you as a adult know your child can not ride like the flow of the track. so keep them off until mini session.and yes sir this is motocross your probably going to get blocked passed at practice. theres a lot of riders who take practice serious. im a father of a girl rider and never are you gonna hear me complain about my daughter being blocked passed or rode dirty on the big track. we know that its gonna happen.we learn from it and move on. so please don't blame frank or apple cabin for having your rider on a track he shouldn't be on.
 
Wow. Alot of questions. Thank you for all the input. To answer some of the questions, the older boy can't be expected to ride with the flow of the track since he has just an 85cc cycle. How can an 85cc be expected to run equal to a 250 or 450cc motorcross bike? I started out with both boys on the mini track, but the other parents suggested that I move my oldest to the main track as they felt 85cc bikes didn't belong on the smaller track. That's pretty much why I've had him on the main track. He liked the small track alot more. I don't want to have my son contribute to the mini track dilemma, so I complied with the other parents wishes by moving him up. He goes well on the straitaways, he has trouble with the grooved turns and he has yet to figure out the jumps however.

The younger of the boys started on the tiny track, but was soon bored of it in 45 minutes of riding on it, and he wanted to ride along with the other youngsters on the mini track. He can keep up with a few of the riders, but he can't stay up with the 65's, 85's, full size bikes, or the pit riders.

Hershey, I would feel more comfortable downgrading tracks respectively, but you see why I haven't. I worry more about the main track as the riders are going way too fast out there to be able to stop if need be. There are only a amall hand full of those riders on the small track.

GeorgiePorgie. I was hoping to get a resolution that would be positive. I'm sorry if I've offended.

I spoke briefly on the phone with a track mom last night. The peewee parents are planning on talking with the track owner to determine if he would be interested in making the track safer for everyone, and to make more money at the same time. We propose that he reserves the mini track for 50cc and 65cc bikes only. In return, we would be willing to pay the same as it costs to ride the main track. The main track would host the full size, 85cc, and pit type of bikes. They should do the time on and time off agenda. Let the faster big bikes ride for 15 minutes, then let the other bikes ride for 15 minutes, and so on. we want our 'lil guys safer out there.
 
Not sure why anyone needs to block pass in practice. But I suppose if you have an agreement between two guys who want to race practice. That's fine?

Sounds likes there's a small number of riders who are too fast for the little track but too slow for the main track. That's just one of those things that happens. Being courteous on practice days helps a lot.

I would never block pass someone in practice. There's plenty other opportunities to get around people. Block passing is really only needed when you're battling someone in a race and you can't really get around them without out smarting them. Why do it in practice ?
 
I applaud your bravery in posting Godfather. Some experienced people may find your questions trivial, but you don't and asked some questions. Good for you!

Safety is what it's all about to parents guys!

This family sounds like they are somewhat new to the sport of dirt biking. Let's help this guy and get him involved more and show him some love and make him feel like a member of the motocross community.

We need all the participant we can get. The youth is the lifeblood of out sport.
 
Age old fight here. There are some 65 riders that will keep up good on the main track and not really pose a problem. There are PLENTY of 85 riders who can do the same. However, the biggest majority of those riders just cant cut it on the big track. Seems YOU have made a choice to advance your kids onto tracks they are too slow for. A PW50 doesnt in any way belong on the mini track. If he is that bored then move him up to a faster bike with better suspension and put him on the mini track. KTM makes more advanced 50's that will go good there. You will do him more justice for his abilities by doing so.

If your son on the 85 cant negotiate ruts and has problems jumping anything then he DOESNT belong on the big track!!! He is a danger not only to himself but to the other riders as well. Safety is always a huge issue in these situations. It amazes me that in your first post you actually stated that riders on the main track are going "too fast" ?????? This is motocross! That is the whole point! If your son is going having problems with those things fast riders are going to get PISSED that he is in the way. They are there in an effort to go fast, to practice technique and raise stamina on the bike. One of the draws of Apple Cabin is the fact that it is an open riding session, no sessions to break up your training efforts. Right now you are going to encounter riders training for Loretta Lynns am national. That means training in your sweatshirt for half hour motos. And there are many riders, like myself, who put in 20-30 min motos just riding. And others ride there because they are not bound to sessions and can ride when ever they like.

Your idea of talking to Frank is a good one, maybe he will give you sessions. In my opinion I think you will be dissapointed tough. He will lose more riders than he will gain 85's on the big track.

Take the time to ride other tracks. Introduce them to new places and terrain. Look through the track guide and look in the open practice forum. Read in the main forum and also the mini forum. Get ideas about what other tracks to ride. Many have sessions exactly like what you are looking for. Malvern, OIR, Briarcliff will do sessions for your son on the 85 on the big track. I am just getting into the 50 scene and only know that Smith rd and Apple cabin have dedicated tracks for them. Beans does as well but I havent checked it out to be informed about it. OIR used to but Im not sure if the new management is using it or not.
 
Yes indeed, we are new to motorcross tracks, but the boys road last year in our yard. The guys at Roush Motorsports told us about the apple cabin riding area at the end of last year so we went once last year and have been out a few times this year. We went to Malvarn once as well so far. I'm gathering that Frank is the track owner as he's been brought up many times thus far? Please excuse my unfamiliarity with the sport if my inquiries seem trivial. The younger son has a KTM Mini Adventure bike. The elder an RM 85.

This is just hypothetical, but if they would dedicate the mini track to the mini kids, and they moved the others to the big track, and split the big track time, the benefits would be two fold. The pee wees would have their own track that they wouldn't get bored with, and it would keep the parents satisfied on that front in that they wouldn't have to worry about the faster full size bikes, 85cc bikes, pit bikes etc. on the track with their kids. The aforementioned bikes get the benefit of riding the main track without the full tilt big bikes if they would split up the riding time on that track. The bigger guys would benefit by not having the slower and smaller bikes in their session so they can do their speed thing. It seems like everybody could benefit? The tiny pee wee guys caould get some time on the mini track here and there as the minis have been doing on the main track just to get a taste of what it's like. It seems to make the most sense when it comes to safety for the kids.
 
hershey said:
Age old fight here. There are some 65 riders that will keep up good on the main track and not really pose a problem. There are PLENTY of 85 riders who can do the same. However, the biggest majority of those riders just cant cut it on the big track. Seems YOU have made a choice to advance your kids onto tracks they are too slow for. A PW50 doesnt in any way belong on the mini track. If he is that bored then move him up to a faster bike with better suspension and put him on the mini track. KTM makes more advanced 50's that will go good there. You will do him more justice for his abilities by doing so.

If your son on the 85 cant negotiate ruts and has problems jumping anything then he DOESNT belong on the big track!!! He is a danger not only to himself but to the other riders as well. Safety is always a huge issue in these situations. It amazes me that in your first post you actually stated that riders on the main track are going "too fast" ?????? This is motocross! That is the whole point! If your son is going having problems with those things fast riders are going to get PISSED that he is in the way. They are there in an effort to go fast, to practice technique and raise stamina on the bike. One of the draws of Apple Cabin is the fact that it is an open riding session, no sessions to break up your training efforts. Right now you are going to encounter riders training for Loretta Lynns am national. That means training in your sweatshirt for half hour motos. And there are many riders, like myself, who put in 20-30 min motos just riding. And others ride there because they are not bound to sessions and can ride when ever they like.

Your idea of talking to Frank is a good one, maybe he will give you sessions. In my opinion I think you will be dissapointed tough. He will lose more riders than he will gain 85's on the big track.

Take the time to ride other tracks. Introduce them to new places and terrain. Look through the track guide and look in the open practice forum. Read in the main forum and also the mini forum. Get ideas about what other tracks to ride. Many have sessions exactly like what you are looking for. Malvern, OIR, Briarcliff will do sessions for your son on the 85 on the big track. I am just getting into the 50 scene and only know that Smith rd and Apple cabin have dedicated tracks for them. Beans does as well but I havent checked it out to be informed about it. OIR used to but Im not sure if the new management is using it or not.
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Our peewee track will be open for the rest of the season- conditions permitting. It is an awesome track for beginning riders. One of my concerns over the last few years is the lack of little guys at the tracks- that is the future riders of our sport, very scary! We are working on a few things to try to get interest peak up and kids riding again. I would love to see our peewee track run on racedays, but with all the additional cost to operate on raceday for a few kids , its just not feasible-what a shame, these little guys on pw's & xr's do not belong on the big tracks.
 
please don't do sessions. when I ride I practice for 30 min motos, not 15 minute sprints. when the big bikes go out at the same time it is always more dangerous due to the fact that there are more bikes out on the track. If you cant hold a line or keep up with the flow, stay off the track. I would seriously consider not going to a track if I knew I would only be able to ride for 15 min at a time. so would some of my riding friends. I remember being in that in between group when I was growing up, too slow for one group, too fast for the other. its nothing to get too worked up about. just tell your kid to stay in his line and not panic. every crash ive seen involving a bike bike and a mini was due to the younger rider trying to swerve out of the way when they heard a faster bike coming up behind them. talk to the kids about track etiquette. hold your line, signal when leaving the track... simple things like that. no need to ruin a good thing. I love riding at cabin and really hope they dont change a thing.
 
spacecat said:
please don't do sessions. when I ride I practice for 30 min motos, not 15 minute sprints. when the big bikes go out at the same time it is always more dangerous due to the fact that there are more bikes out on the track. If you cant hold a line or keep up with the flow, stay off the track. I would seriously consider not going to a track if I knew I would only be able to ride for 15 min at a time. so would some of my riding friends. I remember being in that in between group when I was growing up, too slow for one group, too fast for the other. its nothing to get too worked up about. just tell your kid to stay in his line and not panic. every crash ive seen involving a bike bike and a mini was due to the younger rider trying to swerve out of the way when they heard a faster bike coming up behind them. talk to the kids about track etiquette. hold your line, signal when leaving the track... simple things like that. no need to ruin a good thing. I love riding at cabin and really hope they dont change a thing.
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Really does feel like a waste of time and money when you go to a track and your there for 5 hours and only get an hour of track time because of split sessions and track prep.
 
Godfather said:
Wow. Alot of questions. Thank you for all the input. To answer some of the questions, the older boy can't be expected to ride with the flow of the track since he has just an 85cc cycle. How can an 85cc be expected to run equal to a 250 or 450cc motorcross bike? I started out with both boys on the mini track, but the other parents suggested that I move my oldest to the main track as they felt 85cc bikes didn't belong on the smaller track. That's pretty much why I've had him on the main track. He liked the small track alot more. I don't want to have my son contribute to the mini track dilemma, so I complied with the other parents wishes by moving him up. He goes well on the straitaways, he has trouble with the grooved turns and he has yet to figure out the jumps however.

The younger of the boys started on the tiny track, but was soon bored of it in 45 minutes of riding on it, and he wanted to ride along with the other youngsters on the mini track. He can keep up with a few of the riders, but he can't stay up with the 65's, 85's, full size bikes, or the pit riders.

Hershey, I would feel more comfortable downgrading tracks respectively, but you see why I haven't. I worry more about the main track as the riders are going way too fast out there to be able to stop if need be. There are only a amall hand full of those riders on the small track.

GeorgiePorgie. I was hoping to get a resolution that would be positive. I'm sorry if I've offended.

I spoke briefly on the phone with a track mom last night. The peewee parents are planning on talking with the track owner to determine if he would be interested in making the track safer for everyone, and to make more money at the same time. We propose that he reserves the mini track for 50cc and 65cc bikes only. In return, we would be willing to pay the same as it costs to ride the main track. The main track would host the full size, 85cc, and pit type of bikes. They should do the time on and time off agenda. Let the faster big bikes ride for 15 minutes, then let the other bikes ride for 15 minutes, and so on. we want our 'lil guys safer out there.
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I was there Thursday. My son was riding a supermini on the big track. I believe I know who your son is. There's no reason for him to be on the big track yet. I'm sorry, but I really believe he would do better on the mini track. He needs to build his confidence up. The mini track is where my son learned how to ride. I started my son on a Yamaha 110, then a KTM 65 and now a YZ-85. My son rode his 85 for a year and a half on the mini track. Toward the end I had parents start to wonder when I was going to move him to the big track. Quite frankly I don't care what they said, I only moved my son when I felt he was ready to be on the big track.

Apple Cabin has 3 tracks. That's what makes it such a great place for all. I like the way they run it now. For those who are not familiar with Apple cabin. They run one mini practice on the big track toward the end of the day. That allows the kids to get familiar with the big track before they eventually move there. I'm normally for split practices, but with Apple Cabin having 3 tracks I would like them to keep it the way it is.
 
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Original has been around the sport for a long time. Has a level head and I would take his advice on keeping your son on the smaller track while he builds his skills.

Open practice is a mixture of all levels, local and national pros sometimes show up.

Track etiquette is most important to keep the riding safe and fun for everyone. Holding your line is key. Pick your line and stay there; it is the passing riders obligation to choose another satisfactory line around you/slower rider.

A motocross track isn't a highway. Unlimited speed is welcome, as there is no speed limit. You don't pass on the left or move over for aggressive riders. They will find a way around you. If you move over for the aggressive rider chances are the aggressive rider already committed to your "move over" line. While it is a nice gesture, it is the worst and most tunsafe decision on modern day track etiquette.


Enter the track and exit the track at the designated areas. And signal when exiting. And YIELD when entering. Do not exit the track unless able to do so safely and do not enter unless able to do so safely.

Follow that basic etiquette and everyone gets a ton of seat time, and goes home a happier, more experienced rider. Teach it religiously to your children.
 
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