Open Practice vs Sessions
- Thread starter John250
- Start date
Clint1991
PR Addict
I agree, I just don't see what their is that can be done to prevent this from happening again. I really do feel for the family but I don't see this to be a sessions problem becasue if there were only 85's out there the same could have happend just as easily.
TONYBOLOGNA
Noob
First of thoughts and prayers to the family in Texas. No doubt about it, our sport is dangerous. Accidents happen more often than we all like to think about, and hearing about another one is never easy! As the parent of a 13yr old mini rider myself, this hits close to home.
I often let my child ride on the track with the big bikes. He's a decent rider, not Super Fast though, and can easily hold his own most of the time. Do I like it, no I don't, and i'd rather practice in sessions for his safety and my own nerves. In fact I was at a track yesterday where there were so many bikes flying around I decided to pull my kid. It just wasn't safe in my opinion. Do I want Uncle Sam telling me he can't go out...no thanks!
Basically here is my take........I think mixing all size bikes is asking for trouble. If your a track like Briarcliff that has multiple tracks that can at least designate a mini track where big bikes cant go, then sure open practice is just fine, enter at your own risk. They key word being YOUR, as in YOUR choice! Its when you get a free for all that things get sketchy. When it comes to me trusting other people, well, I just don't have much faith in people!
I often let my child ride on the track with the big bikes. He's a decent rider, not Super Fast though, and can easily hold his own most of the time. Do I like it, no I don't, and i'd rather practice in sessions for his safety and my own nerves. In fact I was at a track yesterday where there were so many bikes flying around I decided to pull my kid. It just wasn't safe in my opinion. Do I want Uncle Sam telling me he can't go out...no thanks!
Basically here is my take........I think mixing all size bikes is asking for trouble. If your a track like Briarcliff that has multiple tracks that can at least designate a mini track where big bikes cant go, then sure open practice is just fine, enter at your own risk. They key word being YOUR, as in YOUR choice! Its when you get a free for all that things get sketchy. When it comes to me trusting other people, well, I just don't have much faith in people!
nitrofish
PR Addict
Tragic and heart breaking. Having a younger rider I like sessions, however I see the other side as well for open riding. Ultimately it is up to the parent or guardian to choose when it is safe or not. I do feel there is a need for all of us to be a bit more aware of traffic flow on a given day. I am not a fast rider anymore and I am often scared to death to get landed on since I'm a chicken jumper now. I myself do not practice anywhere unless they have sessions for the kid. There are folks that will not go to a track that has sessions. For the track owner it is a no win or lose deal. I do like how Briarcliff runs his schedule. Good hard open riding in the morning till 1ish, then if needed a little track prep and a few sessions, a Kids track to keep little Motorhead happy in between. I do find it funny when one complains that they can't ride all day long when they want. They are usually the ones that go out for a couple laps and come back and check Facebook, or Pitracer if they're cool. This latest accident was just that, a tragic accident that should blame no one. Prayers to the family and the boy that landed on him. God speed Tanner.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
The way crashes happen has always peaked my curiosity. Definitely a tragedy in Texas, that is horrible to hear. It makes me think like Knox, how can we prevent from happening. That should never happen again. However, I have seen over 60 bikes, going for it, not riding around, I mean throwing...it...down, after we have a mid day prep. Over blind jumps, all in line like a train. Not one crash. How does this happen? Does this mean they are all the same skill level? 60 A riders? Gimme a break. Now, I will say this doesn't have any minis out there, normally. Golf clap parents. I'm not quite sure my point here. I guess sometimes we get lucky?
Clint1991
PR Addict
Thats the sad truth, it's nearly impossible to be able to prevent. Their are always factors on any track on any given day that could result in a loss of life. I believe in this situation the class of the bike is irrelivent. It could have just as easily been a weekend C rider on a big bike get hit the same way with the same end result.
Roachy
PR Addict
So is this about a tragedy or a question about open practice or sessions?
I prefer open practice just because I want seat time; it is not worth the drive and my time to only get 4 sessions. I also have found that the groups sort of work themselves out.
That being said, it really depends on the track. The majority of tracks 50cc, 65cc and slower 85cc should not be out with the big bikes. Switchback has a good practice of running big and fast mini for like 4 hours then they offer 3 hours for little bikes which is a good practice. Some tracks have multiple tracks so people/riders have options.
I prefer open practice just because I want seat time; it is not worth the drive and my time to only get 4 sessions. I also have found that the groups sort of work themselves out.
That being said, it really depends on the track. The majority of tracks 50cc, 65cc and slower 85cc should not be out with the big bikes. Switchback has a good practice of running big and fast mini for like 4 hours then they offer 3 hours for little bikes which is a good practice. Some tracks have multiple tracks so people/riders have options.
LuckyStar64
PR Addict
It's terrible news when there is any kind of injury, let alone a fatality in this or any sport really. IMO-- practice should be practice with the understanding that there are many types of riders and skill levels practicing on the track at once. In this particular case, it was a bigger bike landing on a smaller bike, but it can happen where a big bike lands on another big bike, and it would be just as bad.
I don't see that the SIZE of the bikes involved has much to do with the situation. It would seem that the amount of riders on a track at a given time, and the skill levels would contribute more to the dynamics of avoiding these types of accidents, and that would only improve the odds. The sport inherently isn't the same as volleyball or tennis. It comes with alot more risk. Most of the weight falls on the riders' shoulders to do what it takes to make the track safer. It's really that simple. --L*64
I don't see that the SIZE of the bikes involved has much to do with the situation. It would seem that the amount of riders on a track at a given time, and the skill levels would contribute more to the dynamics of avoiding these types of accidents, and that would only improve the odds. The sport inherently isn't the same as volleyball or tennis. It comes with alot more risk. Most of the weight falls on the riders' shoulders to do what it takes to make the track safer. It's really that simple. --L*64
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Here is a question, and maybe this deserves it's own thread, but just how many "sessions" is everyone doing on any given day for open practice? And how many laps would you guesstimate you are doing each time?
It seems to me, and maybe this is a major assumption on my part, but I thought most were right about 4. I don't see to many people going much more than once per hour for about four hours. Am I close? If that's true, then why are sessioned practices bad?
I will tell you why, it's because you can't go out whenever you want to go out.
Tell me I'm wrong. And please provide a good reason.
It seems to me, and maybe this is a major assumption on my part, but I thought most were right about 4. I don't see to many people going much more than once per hour for about four hours. Am I close? If that's true, then why are sessioned practices bad?
I will tell you why, it's because you can't go out whenever you want to go out.
Tell me I'm wrong. And please provide a good reason.
Clint1991
PR Addict
I honestly feel like I don't get as much seat time for my money running sessions some days, to many things can happen to spread them out also. I know thats just me, not everyone spends as much time out. But me being cheap, I want to get the very most out of my hard earned cash. It sucks spending 6 hours at the track after paying 25 bucks plus the gas to get there and only putting an hour to hour and a half on the meter vs. riding till I'm beat and need an oil change at an open track for the same ammount of money. Just how I feel.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Well, I have heard those comments from many people. I guess I'm calling everyone's bluff. I don't think everyone rides as much as they claim they. At least the large majority of the main stream.
The argument that you are not getting your money's worth (for everyone) doesn't hold water. Maybe for guys training for Loretta's, I can see, just because of the length of sessions. However, I still think 4 good 15 minute sessions is about dead on for most people.
If it's not, maybe try pushing harder? I challenge most of you to truly keep track next time.
The argument that you are not getting your money's worth (for everyone) doesn't hold water. Maybe for guys training for Loretta's, I can see, just because of the length of sessions. However, I still think 4 good 15 minute sessions is about dead on for most people.
If it's not, maybe try pushing harder? I challenge most of you to truly keep track next time.
Clint1991
PR Addict
I just go by my hour meter, some days are different for me though. Sometimes 4 or 5 15min sessons are enough to satisfy me, sometimes I feel like I could do twice that. To many variables in that. I don't avoid certain tracks for either reason. I agree everyone is different, some people like to kill it for 15 mins, some like myself like a smooth and steady pace till their ready for a break. To eaches own, guess it comes down to what you are on the track for either fun or training.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
15 min sessions from 10am to 5 pm. That is 28 sessions. Group one big bikes. Group 2 85 and fast 65. Session 3 50's and beginner 65. That gives everyone at least 8 sessions with is 2 hours of seat time. If you are not happy with 2 hours of seat time in one day... well maybe you are an iron man. In my BEST condition there is no way I could have done 2 hours at full tilt.
Hanging out at New Vienna a few times this year, I watch people. And if you do this you will notice that 95% fall into one of three categories.
1. "The hanging with my click" = They go out and do 3 "fast" laps then poke around for another lap until they find a buddy. They then set next to each other for 15 min talking about how they ramped off that big double and they are going to do that big jump the next time they go to a race. Then go do another lap or two before heading back to the truck for some "Energy drink" and to tell the Lovely Betty just how fast you are.
2. The "serious" riders go out and do 5 or 6 laps and then back to the truck to take a selfie with a towel over their shoulder and the bike in the background with the caption "Getting a good training session in"
3. Average Joe's Gym = (My personal fav.) They can be dressed in two different forms. first being jeans, a jersey they bought 6 years ago when they bought the bike from Crackhead Kenny and choice footwear, which means anything but boots. Or they can be a guy that just wants to ride after they bought new gear. These guys usually ride 3/4 of the track then cut back to hit that big jump again. They will do this about 4.5 million times until one of two things happen. Crash their brains out. Or actually get it right and then ask EVERYONE if they got it on cam.
Now, everyone here could be in the other 5% but....
Point is. Sessions are the only way to go. It is safer, more organized, more competitive and more then anything, fair to everyone that is there to ride. Besides that. When its not your session, get your arse out on the track and direct riders away from downed guys that may not have been seen.
Hanging out at New Vienna a few times this year, I watch people. And if you do this you will notice that 95% fall into one of three categories.
1. "The hanging with my click" = They go out and do 3 "fast" laps then poke around for another lap until they find a buddy. They then set next to each other for 15 min talking about how they ramped off that big double and they are going to do that big jump the next time they go to a race. Then go do another lap or two before heading back to the truck for some "Energy drink" and to tell the Lovely Betty just how fast you are.
2. The "serious" riders go out and do 5 or 6 laps and then back to the truck to take a selfie with a towel over their shoulder and the bike in the background with the caption "Getting a good training session in"
3. Average Joe's Gym = (My personal fav.) They can be dressed in two different forms. first being jeans, a jersey they bought 6 years ago when they bought the bike from Crackhead Kenny and choice footwear, which means anything but boots. Or they can be a guy that just wants to ride after they bought new gear. These guys usually ride 3/4 of the track then cut back to hit that big jump again. They will do this about 4.5 million times until one of two things happen. Crash their brains out. Or actually get it right and then ask EVERYONE if they got it on cam.
Now, everyone here could be in the other 5% but....
Point is. Sessions are the only way to go. It is safer, more organized, more competitive and more then anything, fair to everyone that is there to ride. Besides that. When its not your session, get your arse out on the track and direct riders away from downed guys that may not have been seen.
Clint1991
PR Addict
Set up like that it would be great, but when quads are also there and you throw in some prep and maybe an injury on the track it can cut the days riding down. There was only one track that I have had days that durring the entire open practice there were only 5 15min sessons for big bikes and it happens to be one of my favorite tracks. I'm no iron man and not an agressive rider, only in it for fun so only putting an hour or so on the meter isn't enough for me because I'm not out killin it. I do like sessions, they are a good thing. I have no preference for how a track is ran as long as I can get my fill.
John250
PR Founding Father
It boils down to the new generation. They want to do what they want, when they want to, and don't want to be told when they have to go out and ride. They want to show up at 1pm.....because they cant get their ass out of bed before 11am, and go ride for 3 hours, because they are headed to the Mall or to their girls house by 5 pm. To go ride and have to be gone longer than that just is way too long for their attention span. But I am sure it is because of their ADD for sure.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Your slipping Papaw... you forgot to add, "Now pull up your dungarees and get off my lawn"
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Here are the groups that most people will want, not everyone will want, but I have heard a lot of this crap:
1. Fast Bike - can whip and scrub
2. B/C bike - normal guys and gals, accidental whippage
3. 85-supermini
4. 50-65s-mini quads
5. Quad
With prep in there, you will probably get through that 4 times, roughly. This would work, except for Group #1. They seriously dislike the idea, called it.
hershey
PR Elite
Im old, slow and out of shape lol..... Generally when in my normal riding mode when I come to BC I will put 2 hrs on my hour meter at your track. You know me, you know my riding capabilities. When Im in shape and the right mindset any less than that I feel like I wasted my time. So for me sessions just plain suck. My normal routine at an NONsession track goes like this....
1. 10 min warm up ride with 10 min rest after
2. 20-30 min moto at avg heart rate 165 with 20 min rest after
3. 30-35 min moto at avg heart rate 165 with 20 min to half hour rest after
4. 20-30 min " " " " " " with 20 min to half hour rest after
5. sometimes I head home now or do one more 20 min moto.
This isnt everytime I practice but it is the average routine for me in the late spring through fall