Pymatuning first race of the year under our belt ,were you there and what did you think of it ?

PYMATUNINGMX

PR Addict
it was our first race of the season and we were about 75 percent done with our upgrades ,but the snow and rain the last two weeks really put a hurting to our efforts and spirit , Mother Nature can and was a bitch ! Oh well it is spring time and were very proud of what we did get finished . Now what did you guys think of it , oh yeah don't forget to vote for the Donald ! He's our only chance out of that bunch of A;/$!,(; holes. For those of you who came out , thank you for your support ! ART
 
Where to start?
Who in the world is dumb enough to water the track while riders are riding on it? Your crew did that at practice before the race on Sunday. This is the 8th year that my son has been racing. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT! I've heard of it, but never seen it. We race in the CRA, OMA, PAMX, MAMA, Switchback and AMA races in Ohio. Pennsylvania, Maryland and New York. I have also been a member at Western Reserve Motorcycle Club for the past 6 years, and I have learned what to do to a track and specifically what NOT to do to a track. Watering the faces and landings of jumps when people are on the track is one of them. As soon as you do something that stupid at any track, parents immediately start complaining. Every time someone places water on the track they either hit it with some sort of machine, or announce that the faces have been watered and to be careful. 1) You didn't touch the track after you watered it (How could you? Riders were on the track - that would be dangerous). 2) There was no announcement. 3) Even if there WAS and announcement, none of the riders ON the track would be able to hear it.

You created a new jump along the right side of the track that is a step-up to a table top. I was told that people complained about it on Saturday that it was kicking people's rear ends into the air. As far as I know, you DID NOTHING to fix it. When I arrived at the track Sunday morning I was told by more than one person to watch that jump because it was kicking people. I immediately told my son to watch it. Which he did during all of his laps in both practices. People who know my son know that he is very cautious on the track , rarely jumping anything that he doesn't need to, especially in the first few laps. He learned that at Budds Creek, MD where ALL RIDERS (even A Riders) have to roll every jump on their first lap.

What were you thinking? When you water the faces and landings of jumps on hard-packed surfaces, they turn to greasy snotty death traps. We have flat track races at WRMC on a hard-packed surface that needs watered. We ask the quads to volunteer to go out first after we water to slowly "run-in" the water before any bike gets on the track. It's just common sense and proper track preparation.

1st lap of the 2nd big bike practice you watered the face and landing of the new step-up to a table top jump on the right side of the track. The one that was kicking everybody. My son came around at a speed that would allow him to safely hit the jump to land in the middle of the table top landing. It was a total greasy mess and when he landed, his front wheel immediately shot to the right slamming him to the ground, breaking both bones in his left forearm (2 plates and 13 screws) and his left collarbone. He sits around all day counting the minutes till he can have another pain pill. The left side of his bike and his helmet are covered from mud that was on the landing of your table top because of your crew's actions.

I know you're going to say it was rider error and you did everything right and he's a c-class rider, etc., etc. My son is not a Pro, neither is he an inexperienced C-Class rider. Until we came to your track on Sunday, he was in first place in the OMA in Open C, 250C and 2-stroke bike winning 8 of 12 races at the Summit indoors, and he is a multiple CRA class champion. So that's not going to cut-it with me.

And saying that "You know it's a dangerous sport and if you don't want to get hurt then don't do it" doesn't work either. And it doesn't cover stupidity or negligence. Having a campfire is dangerous. Throwing gasoline on it is flat out stupid.

You had an unsafe track in the past, now you have unsafe ACTIONS to go with it. Not to mention that you did not have NEARLY enough flaggers on the track. Either get it right - or get out. Put your efforts into your TRACK and SAFETY and trash the PARTY you're tying to create.

Or, just keep doing it the same way and bury your head in the sand. Ignorance is Bliss!

I know you feel bad when someone gets hurt at your track. I know you are a good-hearted person. I know you're sorry that my son lost out on an entire season or two of racing. I know your sorry he's in pain. I know you think it's part of racing. I know you are trying to do different things at your track to save your business. I know it's wrong to water jumps while people are on the track. I know it's about a $65,000 hospital bill. I know it will cost me about $17,000 in deductibles and bills. I know my son cries at night. I know you are sorry.

I was kind and gentle the last time you asked what to do to fix your track, I'm sorry I had to be straight forward this time. I should have been straight forward last time.

Regards,

Ed Lisowski
 
2003 Daniel Boone MX Loretta Lynn Regional Qualifier.....
They watered jump faces and landings during racing.
Often, folks miss or tune out what announcements are made.
 
2003 Daniel Boone MX Loretta Lynn Regional Qualifier.....
They watered jump faces and landings during racing.
Often, folks miss or tune out what announcements are made.

My question is, when is it ever ok/proper to water jump faces and landings during a race or while riders are actively practicing? It happened to me last year and was an instant trip to the ground. It was like landing on grease. I have only been racing a couple of years and have only seen it once. I wasn't the only one that crashed.
 
It sucks your son got hurt but maybe your son should've took a site lap or backed it down for a the first lap. I've been to tons of tracks that water during practice and even the race. Is it dangerous ? Yes but sometimes it's a necessary evil and you have to adjust for the conditions.

Is this the first time your son has been seriously injured?
 
I'm going to have to agree with Ed, watering jumps while riders are on the track is completely unacceptable and not needed. If they need it that bad you red flag everyone and water, send out an announcement and inform riders, then send them back out. I've seen this done a few times.. When this has happened I just simply pull off the track at the nearest safest point and go to the truck. You will see this again, next time instruct your boy to do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using PitRacer mobile app
 
Ever had a dry track that you were riding or racing, then mother nature began crying and it rained on your parade? No flags flown, just adjust.
Unfortunate your son was injured. But as my thread says, let's give the track owners some more respect for allowing us the place to ride.
sorry man you can't compare the two. When it's raining you see it. You feel it. Your aware. When you spin one lap and all jumps are dry. There is no rain in sight why would you expect them to be wet the next time around???? I have seen that in the past and I was pissed as a rider.
 
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It sucks your son got hurt but maybe your son should've took a site lap or backed it down for a the first lap./QUOTE]

It was the 1st lap of the 2nd practice, 8th lap or so.

You can read what he did the first practice in my original post. He was very cautious. Always has been.

I've now been told that multiple people went down on that jump on Saturday and Sunday. They should have fixed it when they were told about it. That's where the negligence comes in.

Then they watered the landing zone knowing it was a dangerous jump.
 
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1st lap of the 2nd big bike practice you watered the face and landing of the new step-up to a table top jump on the right side of the track. The one that was kicking everybody. My son came around at a speed that would allow him to safely hit the jump to land in the middle of the table top landing. It was a total greasy mess and when he landed, his front wheel immediately shot to the right slamming him to the ground, breaking both bones in his left forearm (2 plates and 13 screws) and his left collarbone.


Ed

Really sorry to hear about your son, any injury stinks and his sounds really bad. Ive been there as Im sure many of us have.

My question to you is when did they water? From the way I read your statement above your son came around first lap and attempted to jump a "watered" jump face? If the face was watered why didnt your son slow down and roll the jump? Even if they were watering the jumps while he was on the track he should have rolled it when he saw the face of the jump was watered.

In my time I have witnessed track watering between motos and during motos many many times, even at WRMC years back. If done correctly it isnt too bad of a technique to keep the track dust free and tacky. Lincoln Trail did a fantastic job of it a few ears back when I raced a qualifier there. However a down right slaughtering of water is not good at all. But being it was practice and not a race riders can easily see the track and jump faces have been watered as they ride it and adjust without worrying about losing positions. I cant imagine your son didnt notice the face you said was watered was wet. It isnt fun having to slow down in practice to adjust for conditions but it is part of riding and racing for that matter. Unless they drenched the jump as your son was on the face of it I cant imagine blaming the track owner for the injury. Blame him for being ignorant enough to water it like that, nobody likes those conditions and I would have bitched about it for sure and have many times in the past. But ultimately your son saw the wet jump face prior to hitting it and chose to jump it anyway on the first lap of practice.

Again, sorry for his injury and hope he heals well and sooner than expected
 
You can't paint "track owners" with that broad a brush. Ed is not painting them all in a bad light, just one specific track related to this incident.
True.
I was referring to a similar scenario over a decade ago.
Painting or comparing, all I'm saying is let's remember that we are lucky to have folks who own tracks for us to ride on.
 
Ever had a dry track that you were riding or racing, then mother nature began crying and it rained on your parade? No flags flown, just adjust.
Unfortunate your son was injured. But as my thread says, let's give the track owners some more respect for allowing us the place to ride.


The track owners job is to provide a safe track to ride. If something becomes unsafe, they should fix it.

We've all been to tracks where something on the track is or becomes unsafe. Kickers form on the faces of jumps, landing zones become pushed out and dangerous. They fix them.

The Summit indoor track is built just a few days before the event. They test it, change it and open it to the public. If something becomes dangerous ( a steep landing, a bad jump face, etc, ). They stop the event and FIX IT.

If you know a jump is causing problems for your riders and is dangerous, why would you water the landing? Especially while bikes are on the track and have NO CLUE what you are doing.

You can't compare it to rain. That's ridiculous.

It's bad track management.

And multiple people went down on that jump, some got hurt as well.
 
Ed

Really sorry to hear about your son, any injury stinks and his sounds really bad. Ive been there as Im sure many of us have.

My question to you is when did they water? From the way I read your statement above your son came around first lap and attempted to jump a "watered" jump face? If the face was watered why didnt your son slow down and roll the jump? Even if they were watering the jumps while he was on the track he should have rolled it when he saw the face of the jump was watered.

In my time I have witnessed track watering between motos and during motos many many times, even at WRMC years back. If done correctly it isnt too bad of a technique to keep the track dust free and tacky. Lincoln Trail did a fantastic job of it a few ears back when I raced a qualifier there. However a down right slaughtering of water is not good at all. But being it was practice and not a race riders can easily see the track and jump faces have been watered as they ride it and adjust without worrying about losing positions. I cant imagine your son didnt notice the face you said was watered was wet. It isnt fun having to slow down in practice to adjust for conditions but it is part of riding and racing for that matter. Unless they drenched the jump as your son was on the face of it I cant imagine blaming the track owner for the injury. Blame him for being ignorant enough to water it like that, nobody likes those conditions and I would have bitched about it for sure and have many times in the past. But ultimately your son saw the wet jump face prior to hitting it and chose to jump it anyway on the first lap of practice.

Again, sorry for his injury and hope he heals well and sooner than expected
 
Just to clear the confusion:

They watered the landing (top of a table top) during the practice. It was a step up to a table top. You can't see the landing area when your taking off.

Nobody was able to clear the table top so they were all landing on the "safe" zone on top of the table top.

when it was watered during practice, it was made unsafe. Period.

Again, it was poor track management.
 
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