AMA Motocross - How to qualify for LL's

[Mike]

Anybody surprised by the sudden staff change at the AMA last fall, our Vital friends might be on to something.

"There was a pretty crazy story from last year's PW class involving an AMA official and a mom. Apparently the kid didn't qualify but was given preferential treatment since mom was taking one for the team. Obviously the parents of the kid who earned a spot but were shafted made a big deal about it, and the official is no longer employed by the AMA or MX Sports."

 

[MarctheSharc]

So 2017 --
You know KTM has e- start?

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Anybody surprised by the sudden staff change at the AMA last fall, our Vital friends might be on to something.

"There was a pretty crazy story from last year's PW class involving an AMA official and a mom. Apparently the kid didn't qualify but was given preferential treatment since mom was taking one for the team. Obviously the parents of the kid who earned a spot but were shafted made a big deal about it, and the official is no longer employed by the AMA or MX Sports."

#metoo ?

 

[jrminiquad]

You want to talk about the disparity in the AMA - the previous AMA Motocross Assistant Manager, Mike Pelletier, now Supercross manager, reiterated the AMA rule last year in a discussion about amateur rider classification that “Participation in, or advancement to, a higher class in any AMA or non-AMA activity by any rider will result in permanent advancement to that higher class.”.

The current and newly promoted AMA Motocross Operations Coordinator, Jack Babet, the guy that is now making the decisions on classification appeals, raced in A class in 2016 Vintage MX, but went to a Battle for Ohio at Briarcliff last year and raced C. What's up with that?

 

[Mike]

You want to talk about the disparity in the AMA - the previous AMA Motocross Assistant Manager, Mike Pelletier, now Supercross manager, reiterated the AMA rule last year in a discussion about amateur rider classification that “Participation in, or advancement to, a higher class in any AMA or non-AMA activity by any rider will result in permanent advancement to that higher class.”.

The current and newly promoted AMA Motocross Operations Coordinator, Jack Babet, the guy that is now making the decisions on classification appeals, raced in A class in 2016 Vintage MX, but went to a Battle for Ohio at Briarcliff last year and raced C. What's up with that?

Hang on............... not trying to start a AMA bash here...... just pointing out if your mother PUTS OUT, your chances of making LL's increase.

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Well this thread is going to explode.


Put out or get out!

 

[beenridin]

You want to talk about the disparity in the AMA - the previous AMA Motocross Assistant Manager, Mike Pelletier, now Supercross manager, reiterated the AMA rule last year in a discussion about amateur rider classification that “Participation in, or advancement to, a higher class in any AMA or non-AMA activity by any rider will result in permanent advancement to that higher class.”.

The current and newly promoted AMA Motocross Operations Coordinator, Jack Babet, the guy that is now making the decisions on classification appeals, raced in A class in 2016 Vintage MX, but went to a Battle for Ohio at Briarcliff last year and raced C. What's up with that?

Jack went through the proper appeals process to move down to the class he belongs in and was approved. This all occurred prior to his hiring at the AMA full time.

 

[bruceb]

Anybody surprised by the sudden staff change at the AMA last fall, our Vital friends might be on to something.

"There was a pretty crazy story from last year's PW class involving an AMA official and a mom. Apparently the kid didn't qualify but was given preferential treatment since mom was taking one for the team. Obviously the parents of the kid who earned a spot but were shafted made a big deal about it, and the official is no longer employed by the AMA or MX Sports."

And, as Paul Harvey once said, "Here is the rest of the story" (from vitalmx):


I'm probably going to regret this, but this is not at all what happened. My memory is 99% on this and here is how it happened.

At the Southwest Regional they take the top 3 kids in the PW50 class to Lorettas. One of the kids who finished in the top three was protested for illegal suspension. The suspension was deemed illegal but the rider produced a letter from an AMA employee that said it was OK to do what he did to the suspension. So now there is a problem. It was not fair to the fourth place rider to be beaten by a bike with illegal parts, but it was also not fair to DQ the kid with the suspension because he was misled by the AMA employee who did not understand his question and replied improperly.

Since there is not a full gate at LLs in the PW class a compromise was reached and both were allowed to race. What probably should have happened was the kid should have been DQed for illegal suspension and then appealed the DQ. That would have left a paper trail. Instead, when they got to LLs they just put her in the class.

The problem was twofold. One, she was listed as the 4th alternate, and two her mom was dating an AMA employee. When she was added to the class everyone thought they jumped over the first three alternates because of her moms relationship when in actuality it was because of what happened in the regional. Had the regional been handled properly, she would have been in third and a qualifying position.

I think after how bad it looked, even though non of the rumors were true, MX Sports just let all of the alternates who were there race.

Finally, think about this. Even if an AMA employee asked MX Sports to allow their girlfriends kid to hop over a bunch of kids in the alternate line, there is ZERO chance MX Sports would say yes to that. Every result from every race is online. Even if MX Sports wanted to, which I could never fathom, no chance they could possibly get away with it.

It is a way better story that a mom slept her kids way to the gate at LLs, just not what happened

 

[Mike]

Cool story.
ZERO personal knowledge, just passing along a Vital story.

If anybody wants to race AHRMA, please don't send your MOTHER....... daughters, sisters, perhaps wives, but no mothers.

# ME TOO

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Vitarditis. It’s spreading.

 

[ck1racerx]

Trying not to get baited here...
BUT, the guy went from "A" to "C"? How in the heck does that work? Why not B?

Why would an A rider EVER want to go back to C?

The more I think about classification the less I care. No one else cares, at least the people that can do anything about it.
Throw the "rulebook" away and just race whatever you want. Live for today, cheat, hell with the next generation of racers.

Wait, if there is no rule book then its not cheating....

 

[John250]

The first 3 or 4 in the Jr. C class at Daytona was tripling a quad that only the top riders were doing, and then going triple, triple in a rhythm section. NO WAY these guys belonged in the C class.

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Trying not to get baited here...
BUT, the guy went from "A" to "C"? How in the heck does that work? Why not B?

Why would an A rider EVER want to go back to C?

The more I think about classification the less I care. No one else cares, at least the people that can do anything about it.
Throw the "rulebook" away and just race whatever you want. Live for today, cheat, hell with the next generation of racers.

Wait, if there is no rule book then its not cheating....

Mind you....Comparing VINTAGE classes to modern classes. Modern c rider would probably race A vintage. If nobody shows up for modern motocross what makes you guys think the talent pool is so well endowed for vintage races ????

I’m not sayin there aren’t fast vintage guys.

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

The first 3 or 4 in the Jr. C class at Daytona was tripling a quad that only the top riders were doing, and then going triple, triple in a rhythm section. NO WAY these guys belonged in the C class.

Maybe so, but can’t fix it. It’s only getting worse.

My dad made an awesome point at the qualifier. He’s like “man top 5 c riders today are like a riders when i raced. Back then tho you couldn’t afford to race for a damn trophy, as soon as you were able to race for money you did it.”

People can’t afford to race now but damn do they love trophies.

 

[ck1racerx]

Mind you....Comparing VINTAGE classes to modern classes. Modern c rider would probably race A vintage. If nobody shows up for modern motocross what makes you guys think the talent pool is so well endowed for vintage races ????

I’m not sayin there aren’t fast vintage guys.

My last vintage race I was on the line with Rick Johnson, Chuck Sun and Ron Lechien. I think Cooper and Micky Diamond were there also. Dubach ran a few as well.
This year they are all running C class at LL.

 

[SlowOldGuy]

You want to talk about the disparity in the AMA - the previous AMA Motocross Assistant Manager, Mike Pelletier, now Supercross manager, reiterated the AMA rule last year in a discussion about amateur rider classification that “Participation in, or advancement to, a higher class in any AMA or non-AMA activity by any rider will result in permanent advancement to that higher class.”.

The current and newly promoted AMA Motocross Operations Coordinator, Jack Babet, the guy that is now making the decisions on classification appeals, raced in A class in 2016 Vintage MX, but went to a Battle for Ohio at Briarcliff last year and raced C. What's up with that?

Nice to see MX discussion is alive and well in Ohio. I used to be on this board in the early 2000s as National Sales Manager for Cobra. Someone text me and said my post on Vital was cut and pasted here. When I took a look I saw this post about Jack Babet and thought I might add something. I am also one the committee that handles appeals so I have first hand knowledge of the process and precedents.

To address permanent advancement based on riding up a class, this is one of the things the appeals process is designed to handle. I have been on a ton of appeals over the years and I can tell you that I can only think of one time ever that someone who rode up a class one time and wanted to go back down was denied an appeal. Appeals like this one are approved 99.9% of the time. So this is absolutely the norm, not a special favor for anyone.

What is not the norm in moving back 2 classes. I have only seen this a couple of times and there are generally extenuating circumstances. So lets look at the information that the appeal board had to go on when considering Jacks appeal:

1st. Racing an A class at a vintage race - I have already talked about the fact that these types of appeals are approved almost every time. The committee allows riders one mistake. In this 125 A class vintage race, Jack finished 5th out of 6 riders, one had a DNF.

2. Moving back 2 classes - Much tougher to justify, but the committee looked at the riders entire racing career. He raced once in 2007, and once in 2008 on minibikes and finished last in both races.He skipped 2009 and raced once in 2010 in a race with 3 riders and finished 2nd. From 2011 thru 2016 he raced 250C three times and finished 26th, 30th, and 30th. He raced 8 vintage races in B/C, and one in 125A. That's it, that was the extent of his racing career at the time of his appeal. He had raced 16 times in his entire life and other than some good finishes in some B/C classes at vintage races, he SUCKED.

So assume this is John Smith and not Jack Babet, and I'm guessing no one would have a problem with a kid who raced 8 vintage races and 3 times in 250C with an average finish of 28th having an appeal approved to ride C class.

 

[Mike]

And, as Paul Harvey once said, "Here is the rest of the story" (from vitalmx):


I'm probably going to regret this, but this is not at all what happened. My memory is 99% on this and here is how it happened.

At the Southwest Regional they take the top 3 kids in the PW50 class to Lorettas. One of the kids who finished in the top three was protested for illegal suspension. The suspension was deemed illegal but the rider produced a letter from an AMA employee that said it was OK to do what he did to the suspension. So now there is a problem. It was not fair to the fourth place rider to be beaten by a bike with illegal parts, but it was also not fair to DQ the kid with the suspension because he was misled by the AMA employee who did not understand his question and replied improperly.

Since there is not a full gate at LLs in the PW class a compromise was reached and both were allowed to race. What probably should have happened was the kid should have been DQed for illegal suspension and then appealed the DQ. That would have left a paper trail. Instead, when they got to LLs they just put her in the class.

The problem was twofold. One, she was listed as the 4th alternate, and two her mom was dating an AMA employee. When she was added to the class everyone thought they jumped over the first three alternates because of her moms relationship when in actuality it was because of what happened in the regional. Had the regional been handled properly, she would have been in third and a qualifying position.

I think after how bad it looked, even though non of the rumors were true, MX Sports just let all of the alternates who were there race.

Finally, think about this. Even if an AMA employee asked MX Sports to allow their girlfriends kid to hop over a bunch of kids in the alternate line, there is ZERO chance MX Sports would say yes to that. Every result from every race is online. Even if MX Sports wanted to, which I could never fathom, no chance they could possibly get away with it.

It is a way better story that a mom slept her kids way to the gate at LLs, just not what happened

So how does this story end with the AMA guy getting fired on the spot??????/

 

[SlowOldGuy]

So how does this story end with the AMA guy getting fired on the spot??????/

He didn't get fired on the spot.

 

[Vargo671]

Nice to see MX discussion is alive and well in Ohio. I used to be on this board in the early 2000s as National Sales Manager for Cobra. Someone text me and said my post on Vital was cut and pasted here. When I took a look I saw this post about Jack Babet and thought I might add something. I am also one the committee that handles appeals so I have first hand knowledge of the process and precedents.

To address permanent advancement based on riding up a class, this is one of the things the appeals process is designed to handle. I have been on a ton of appeals over the years and I can tell you that I can only think of one time ever that someone who rode up a class one time and wanted to go back down was denied an appeal. Appeals like this one are approved 99.9% of the time. So this is absolutely the norm, not a special favor for anyone.

What is not the norm in moving back 2 classes. I have only seen this a couple of times and there are generally extenuating circumstances. So lets look at the information that the appeal board had to go on when considering Jacks appeal:

1st. Racing an A class at a vintage race - I have already talked about the fact that these types of appeals are approved almost every time. The committee allows riders one mistake. In this 125 A class vintage race, Jack finished 5th out of 6 riders, one had a DNF.

2. Moving back 2 classes - Much tougher to justify, but the committee looked at the riders entire racing career. He raced once in 2007, and once in 2008 on minibikes and finished last in both races.He skipped 2009 and raced once in 2010 in a race with 3 riders and finished 2nd. From 2011 thru 2016 he raced 250C three times and finished 26th, 30th, and 30th. He raced 8 vintage races in B/C, and one in 125A. That's it, that was the extent of his racing career at the time of his appeal. He had raced 16 times in his entire life and other than some good finishes in some B/C classes at vintage races, he SUCKED.

So assume this is John Smith and not Jack Babet, and I'm guessing no one would have a problem with a kid who raced 8 vintage races and 3 times in 250C with an average finish of 28th having an appeal approved to ride C class.

Is this the Babet that posts on this site?

 

[Vet261]