The 2019's....

Jack Bierbower

Jack Bierbower

PR Addict
Day to day you’re right on the money. Major rebuild is the advantage of a two stroke. I took a yz125 from the frame for a couple hundred bucks more than just my 4 stroke motor. Then catastrophic failure, empty the wallet. I’m not going to get into the 2 vs 4 pissing match thats not what this thread is about. But I do think if you’re racing local and amateur the bike doesn’t make that much difference. Especially for a guy like me.


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Toddco327

Toddco327

PR Addict
Well said Jack.

I agree that 4 strokes are a better machine on a national competitive level. There no secret that they are more to maintain. It's a fact. Valves, timing chain piston etc is just more expensive to fix if something goes wrong. A 2 stroke top end is 300 bucks brand new. A 4 stroke top end is 1500. Just more parts to fix and replace. But I'm not here to debate that.

What I'm saying is that 90% of us on here could ride a 125 or 250 and be more than happy with the performance, for 70% of the price of a 250/450. And the other 5k you didn't spend you can put into the bike. Hell you can have pro circuit do the motor if you need more power and still be cheaper than the 450. Just seems like the dirt bike market pricing is going up quite a bit. Except Suzuki, those are a good deal.
 
jj584

jj584

PR Addict
Toddco327 said:
Well said Jack.

I agree that 4 strokes are a better machine on a national competitive level. There no secret that they are more to maintain. It's a fact. Valves, timing chain piston etc is just more expensive to fix if something goes wrong. A 2 stroke top end is 300 bucks brand new. A 4 stroke top end is 1500. Just more parts to fix and replace. But I'm not here to debate that.

What I'm saying is that 90% of us on here could ride a 125 or 250 and be more than happy with the performance, for 70% of the price of a 250/450. And the other 5k you didn't spend you can put into the bike. Hell you can have pro circuit do the motor if you need more power and still be cheaper than the 450. Just seems like the dirt bike market pricing is going up quite a bit. Except Suzuki, those are a good deal.
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Not to split hairs here but we just rebuilt a 2014 kx250f for 700$. Cometic replaced the valves, and guides, cut the seats, decked the head, valve stem seals, honed the cylinder, wiseco forged piston, timing chain, and all the gaskets. If you guys are destroying cam bearings and journals than your doing something wrong. Your valve train will last longer too if you stop bouncing the limiter every time the rear wheel leaves ground. We were at cabin last weak and parked between the two tracks by the table table section, all these 250f’s bouncing limiter over a 25’ table!
 
Jack Bierbower

Jack Bierbower

PR Addict
450's you can get way more time out of than a 250f. I start getting worried at 30 hours on a 250f top end, I know guys out there that are putting 70, 80, 90 hours on a 250f top end, but I'm not those guys. I've pushed my luck on rebuilds and its bit me in the ass each time I've done it. OEM YZ125 piston and gasket kit $120 all day long. 250 2 strokes are probably close on price and you get twice as long. $700 sounds about right if you can do most of it yourself.

Anyone ride KTM's at the turkey trot thing at crow canyon last year? I want to ride some orange bikes ....I honestly do not like the look of the new KTM's but last years models are going to be tough to find in the spring.
 
GeorgiePorgie

GeorgiePorgie

PR Founding Father
I’m not worried. My brother put like 120 hours on a top end with his husky. Leak down test was fine. Replaced the top end just cuz he was going to JWTF Did a top end. Ran it to 165 hours, I rode it compare and bike pulls just as hard as mine that has 23 hours on it.

I rebuild my 144 every 20 hours. Top and bottom every 40. Costs me $450 to do a total. About 160 for a top. Going with hours here $1600-2400 dollars ill spend if I take that bike to 160 hours. Say $3000 invested. I got 5500 into a 125. For another 1800-2000 I can get on a brand new husky 250f and run the piss out of it for 160 hours. So to me it’s close to even in price m, not much difference in the long haul.
 
Toddco327

Toddco327

PR Addict
GeorgiePorgie said:
I’m not worried. My brother put like 120 hours on a top end with his husky. Leak down test was fine. Replaced the top end just cuz he was going to JWTF Did a top end. Ran it to 165 hours, I rode it compare and bike pulls just as hard as mine that has 23 hours on it.

I rebuild my 144 every 20 hours. Top and bottom every 40. Costs me $450 to do a total. About 160 for a top. Going with hours here $1600-2400 dollars ill spend if I take that bike to 160 hours. Say $3000 invested. I got 5500 into a 125. For another 1800-2000 I can get on a brand new husky 250f and run the piss out of it for 160 hours. So to me it’s close to even in price m, not much difference in the long haul.
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I get your math BUT it doesn't really add up. You DONT need to put a top and bottom end in it every 40hrs. You just do. You COULD get more hours out of it. Yes. And finally WOULD you run your 250f for 150hrs without any type of top end maintenance? PROBABLY not. And given the race pace your run it's just not practical. FINALLY if you blow your motor in the 125 it's still 500 bucks. And if you blow your motor in a 250. It's way more.

But I guess this is a topic for another thread. The new YZ bikes are sweet looking hard to argue with there performance in any size.

Saw a lot of 2 strokes at Apple cabin tonight.
 
Toddco327

Toddco327

PR Addict
jfalat said:
hydraulic clutch...better brakes... new frame geometry to help with turning..
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Yes we all want the hydro clutch but sadly only KTM has it. And if the "frame geometry" is what's giving you trouble turning a 250 2stroke is probably not the frame. It's a 2 stroke. It doesn't get much easier.
 
GeorgiePorgie

GeorgiePorgie

PR Founding Father
Toddco327 said:
I get your math BUT it doesn't really add up. You DONT need to put a top and bottom end in it every 40hrs. You just do. You COULD get more hours out of it. Yes. And finally WOULD you run your 250f for 150hrs without any type of top end maintenance? PROBABLY not. And given the race pace your run it's just not practical. FINALLY if you blow your motor in the 125 it's still 500 bucks. And if you blow your motor in a 250. It's way more.

But I guess this is a topic for another thread. The new YZ bikes are sweet looking hard to argue with there performance in any size.

Saw a lot of 2 strokes at Apple cabin tonight.
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You never looked at a big bore Athena piston after 20 hours have you? Reason everyone bitches and whines the 144 is unreliable is because people run them to 60-80 hours. Do a top end only and the new top end blows the rod apart.....
 
jfalat

jfalat

PR Addict
Toddco327 said:
Yes we all want the hydro clutch but sadly only KTM has it. And if the "frame geometry" is what's giving you trouble turning a 250 2stroke is probably not the frame. It's a 2 stroke. It doesn't get much easier.
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The bike turns pretty good,but my old rm250 turned a lot better.. i would just like to see them step up and put more R&D into the 2 strokes because I am not a 4 stroke fan...
 
Jack Bierbower

Jack Bierbower

PR Addict
ImageUploadedByPitRacer1528810379.825444.jpg




Hydro Clutch
Springs
New motor



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TwentyThreeMX

TwentyThreeMX

PR Founding Father
that kawi exhaust is awful. interesting to see spring forks... guess the air fork fad is dead. didnt last long. cool for hydro clutch. trying to catch up to ktm! i wish honda would put better brakes and a hydro clutch and the 450 would be a 10/10!
 
Toddco327

Toddco327

PR Addict
TwentyThreeMX said:
that kawi exhaust is awful. interesting to see spring forks... guess the air fork fad is dead. didnt last long. cool for hydro clutch. trying to catch up to ktm! i wish honda would put better brakes and a hydro clutch and the 450 would be a 10/10!
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“The exhaust is awful” coming from the guy who would have an aftermarket on for it before it was unloaded from his truck lol. The hydro clutch is nice though.
 
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