Proposed changes to the claiming rule

bruceb

bruceb

PR Addict
From Mike Burkeen, posted at vitalmx.com
1. Once a claim is placed an agreement will be signed by the claimant that the claim is irrevocable.

2. The claimant shall remain anonymous until the moment the bike is received.

3. All claimants must be 18 years of age, or represented in person by a parent or legal guardian.

4. If the rider of a claimed motorcycle has subsequent events to ride in the meet on said bike, the meet referee shall be responsible for impounding and and assigning staff to monitor the motorcycle, in person, during all facets of preparation and racing. The motorcycle will be delivered at the end of the final event in which it is utilized.

www.vitalmx.com

AMA Motocross Commission Claiming Rules Proposed Changes for 2023

The AMA Motocross Commission, the rule making body of amateur motocross, met last night to discuss rule changes for the 2023 season. Several proposals for the 2023 were debated and the notes from the meeting can be seen here in the coming days:
www.vitalmx.com www.vitalmx.com
 
hershey

hershey

PR Elite
bruceb said:
From Mike Burkeen, posted at vitalmx.com
1. Once a claim is placed an agreement will be signed by the claimant that the claim is irrevocable.

2. The claimant shall remain anonymous until the moment the bike is received.

3. All claimants must be 18 years of age, or represented in person by a parent or legal guardian.

4. If the rider of a claimed motorcycle has subsequent events to ride in the meet on said bike, the meet referee shall be responsible for impounding and and assigning staff to monitor the motorcycle, in person, during all facets of preparation and racing. The motorcycle will be delivered at the end of the final event in which it is utilized.

www.vitalmx.com

AMA Motocross Commission Claiming Rules Proposed Changes for 2023

The AMA Motocross Commission, the rule making body of amateur motocross, met last night to discuss rule changes for the 2023 season. Several proposals for the 2023 were debated and the notes from the meeting can be seen here in the coming days:
www.vitalmx.com www.vitalmx.com
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I like it.
 
R

Rough Scramble

PR Member
Everybody keeps talking 'trick ' parts, what if it was a over bore [300]. Either way you be purchasing a bike that is illegal under the current rule set.
 
Scoob

Scoob

PR Founding Father
Rough Scramble said:
Everybody keeps talking 'trick ' parts, what if it was a over bore [300]. Either way you be purchasing a bike that is illegal under the current rule set.
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Good point. You could also get a bike that is legal, just using parts that are not of the riders sponsors as well...that rips. Will never be a space I'll be in on either side so no matter to me. Makes good news though for certain...lol.
 
Mcaupp22

Mcaupp22

PR Addict
Rough Scramble said:
Everybody keeps talking 'trick ' parts, what if it was a over bore [300]. Either way you be purchasing a bike that is illegal under the current rule set.
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No one would over bore a 250f. They put in different cranks because the stock ones are trash. They put in high compression pistons. They have double fuel injectors and I’m sure there’s more but that is the base off it all. I highly doubt that the bike was illegal at all. It just had parts we the general public can’t get and the bike was worth way more than double MSRP. Once one person does it I’m sure there’s going to be more in the future
 
Mcaupp22

Mcaupp22

PR Addict
Also by the time you add up everything to get a bike to that level probably about every single kid on the line for 250b and schoolboy 2 is sitting on anywhere from 15k to 30k bikes
 
hershey

hershey

PR Elite
Mcaupp22 said:
No one would over bore a 250f. They put in different cranks because the stock ones are trash. They put in high compression pistons. They have double fuel injectors and I’m sure there’s more but that is the base off it all. I highly doubt that the bike was illegal at all. It just had parts we the general public can’t get and the bike was worth way more than double MSRP. Once one person does it I’m sure there’s going to be more in the future
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Dude, they bore 250s all the time. There are 260, 270 and 300 kits available
 
Vet261

Vet261

PR Addict
It's amusing reading all the stuff everywhere that has exploded because of this and really makes you realize how ignorant people are (mainly on Vital LOL).
1. Claiming a bike is different than protesting a bike. Deegan's bike was legal in the class (theoretically). He could have been racing Justin Coopers 250f and it would have been legal.
2. You can learn a lot in life just by reading written rules, manuals, documentation.
3. There are multiple sides to every situation. People were hammering Cotter, Burkeen, etc. I've had many discussions with those folks and I know they value their integrity and they showed that in their individual interviews.

To rough scrambles post though, it would be funny if the claim went through, and then later they opened the bike up and found it was a 280cc motor!! hahaha The protest period would have long since passed, so Deegan would keep his results, although hugely tainted, but then the new owner has an illegal overbore bike!


After thinking about those proposed changes some more, I don't agree with #1. The claimant should absolutely be able to rescind the claim if they want to.
My update to rule#1 would be that the claim can be rescinded, however the claimant pays some $xxx processing fee for rescinded claim. $100, $200, something like that.
This "rescinded claim fee" would essentially be there so people don't just make claims all day to be jerks, they have to be serious.
 
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hershey

hershey

PR Elite
bruceb said:
If the claimant decides to rescind his claim, all he needs to do is reach an agreement with the original owner to sell the bike back for the claim price.
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Yeah but if they aren't hiding anything and don't care, you're stuck. Which would be fine by me.
 
Carlisle

Carlisle

PR Member
Mcaupp22 said:
No one would over bore a 250f. They put in different cranks because the stock ones are trash. They put in high compression pistons. They have double fuel injectors and I’m sure there’s more but that is the base off it all. I highly doubt that the bike was illegal at all. It just had parts we the general public can’t get and the bike was worth way more than double MSRP. Once one person does it I’m sure there’s going to be more in the future
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You obviously have no idea what the factories are capable of! Lol
 
Carlisle

Carlisle

PR Member
450881A7-196D-4D70-BE7E-892BA74B3A0E.jpeg

This is an example. The top Is a stock 426 hemi intake port on a cylinder head. The bottom is the same head and intake port after they are done with it. I could explain it but if you just read under the photos it is a basic explanation. After the heads are finished, they are bolted back on and engine put back together. No one would ever be able to tell the difference between the heads unless you took them apart. This is 20 yr old technology. A four stroke dirtbike engine is basically built the same only it 1 cylinder. What do you think the factories like Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki etc are capable of with the 4 stroke engines now? And if I’m not mistaken, works bikes are illegal in the ama! But if any of the factory bikes have 1 off parts inside doesn’t that make it a works motor? I truly believe there are works parts in all the factory bikes, if deegans bike would have ever been opened up then a whole new can of worms would have been opened! I don’t believe any of the interviews with any of the top people! Just brennan! I believe him!
 
hershey

hershey

PR Elite
Carlisle said:
View attachment 76757
This is an example. The top Is a stock 426 hemi intake port on a cylinder head. The bottom is the same head and intake port after they are done with it. I could explain it but if you just read under the photos it is a basic explanation. After the heads are finished, they are bolted back on and engine put back together. No one would ever be able to tell the difference between the heads unless you took them apart. This is 20 yr old technology. A four stroke dirtbike engine is basically built the same only it 1 cylinder. What do you think the factories like Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki etc are capable of with the 4 stroke engines now? And if I’m not mistaken, works bikes are illegal in the ama! But if any of the factory bikes have 1 off parts inside doesn’t that make it a works motor? I truly believe there are works parts in all the factory bikes, if deegans bike would have ever been opened up then a whole new can of worms would have been opened! I don’t believe any of the interviews with any of the top people! Just brennan! I believe him!
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Spot on!

Those people defending themselves are full.of it mostly. Have to protect themselves and each other.
 
Vet261

Vet261

PR Addict
AMA Pro Racing rule regarding the "engine."

3.3 Engines
a. Engines are restricted to single cylinder.
b. Engine displacement shall be recorded in cubic centimeters.
c. Displacement = B² (0.7854) HX B= Cylinder bore; H= Stroke; X= Number of cylinders (bore x bore x 0.7854 x stroke)
d. Supercharging or turbo charging is not permitted.
e. Bore and Stroke must remain the same as the homologated model.
f. Material and castings of cylinders, cylinder heads, and crankcases must be the same as an originally approved model of the same manufacturer. Material may be added or removed from these items. Cylinder liners or coating may be replaced or added provided the original cylinder casting is utilized.
g. For 4-stroke engines the original intake and exhaust valve angle must remain the same as on the homologated model.
h. Type of intake, including the exhaust power valves, must remain the same as the homologated model (rotary valve, case reed valve, poppet valve, etc.).
i. Type of cooling system (water, oil or air) must remain as homologated.
j. Fuel injection is permitted only if it is standard equipment on the homologated model.
 
Carlisle

Carlisle

PR Member
Vet261 said:
AMA Pro Racing rule regarding the "engine."

3.3 Engines
a. Engines are restricted to single cylinder.
b. Engine displacement shall be recorded in cubic centimeters.
c. Displacement = B² (0.7854) HX B= Cylinder bore; H= Stroke; X= Number of cylinders (bore x bore x 0.7854 x stroke)
d. Supercharging or turbo charging is not permitted.
e. Bore and Stroke must remain the same as the homologated model.
f. Material and castings of cylinders, cylinder heads, and crankcases must be the same as an originally approved model of the same manufacturer. Material may be added or removed from these items. Cylinder liners or coating may be replaced or added provided the original cylinder casting is utilized.
g. For 4-stroke engines the original intake and exhaust valve angle must remain the same as on the homologated model.
h. Type of intake, including the exhaust power valves, must remain the same as the homologated model (rotary valve, case reed valve, poppet valve, etc.).
i. Type of cooling system (water, oil or air) must remain as homologated.
j. Fuel injection is permitted only if it is standard equipment on the homologated model.
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Yep those are the rules! Tells me nothing, other than the fact that maybe 1 or more of those rules where overlooked when building deegans motor. Hence the reason they were so paranoid about it getting into someone else’s hands! Y’all need to start thinking outside the bubble!!
 
R

Rough Scramble

PR Member
Most if not all racing associations are not afraid to lift a cylinder head for a look inside often just as a part of a pre-race tech. The top doesn't tell it all but it shows quite a bit. Bore-Stroke are easily checked along with a view of the castings and port configuration.

Has any motor ever been torn down at Loretta's ?
 
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