CRA class issues

streaks383

streaks383

PR Addict
I have a 2005 YZ-300 made by Eric Gorr, it is AMA compliant to race in the 450 class. At a recent CRA event I was told I was not allowed to race in the 450 class. I am a bit upset after spending the money to have this bike built to race in the 450 class and not being allowed to do so. Although I met the CC requirement, rule #38 states "The machine must remain in the class in which it was originally manufactured". I was upset about it but the promoters did what they thought was right and did not allow me to race in the 450 class. I spoke to Yamaha and they told me and sent an email to the CRA stating my bike was designed to compete in the 450 class.

Dear CRA,

I am sending this e-mail in response from a request from one of your participants.

In reviewing your rulebook: #38 The machine must remain in the class in which it was originally manufactured.

From 2003 to the present. A 450cc Four Stoke was designed to be raced against a 250cc 2-Strokes and that continues to be true today. Once these 4-Strokes started dominating events the market quickly shifted focus from 2-Stroke to 4-Stroke and that trend continues. However, we are one of the few Manufacturers that still produce both models and allow our customers to make the ultimate choice which one is best for them. We hope that you will review the rule and allow vehicles to participate in classes that they were originally manufactured to compete in as well as those vehicles that have been modified and or that their cc’s exceeds the classes, that it was originally manufactured. All of which will keep it fair to all your competitors

You may want to consider updating the rule to say: The machine must remain in the class in which it was originally manufactured unless the cc’s exceed the original class specifications. CRA reserves the right to place machine/rider in the appropriate class to ensure fair competition to all.


Regards,
Donnie Luce
Amateur MX/ ATV / Off-Road Coordinator
Yamaha Racing Division
6555 Katella Ave.
Cypress, CA 90630
714-761-7760 Office

With this being clarified by the manufacturer in my opinion I am in compliance with rule #38 and also the CC requirement. I asked the CRA via email 1 week ago and again today what I am not in compliance with and I am yet to get a response. Up to a week ago they very extremely prompt in replying to my emails. The last one I got stated "Waiting to hear from the people I sent the info to. I cannot make the decision". I don't understand what decision needs to be made if I am in compliance with the rules.

I have been out of racing for a couple years now and I was very excited to get back into it, only to find my local sanctioning body is not allowing me to race the class I want to and that I am in compliance with. I am trying to race 450C, I was forced to race in the 250C class in which I got 7th, so it is clear I am at the right skill level, fitness level and have the right bike to compete in the 450C class.

Am I looking at this wrong, can anyone see a different point of view I am overlooking? I am not asking you guys to play devils advocate here, but if you can see a flaw in my building a 300CC 2T to race the 450 class please give your opinion for me. I understand making 250 2Ts eligible for the 250 class in order to make them more appealing and make our sport more affordable. But if that was the intent why not allow a 250 2T eligible for both classes, or at least let me race my 300 in the 450 class.
 
I cant believe what I just read, the cra wont let you run it against 450's ? What a joke. I thought 250's 2stk were not allowed to ride in the 250 class until last year or the year before. So when that changed you cant ride it in the 450 class ? Unbelievable what rules are being made and enforced. Geez the ama lets them run in the 450 class and not the 250 class.

I hope you get this resolved, if not you should get every holeshot you race in !
 
That doesn't sound right if you ask me. I raced my Service Honda 500 in 450B at OIR last year and no one ever said anything to me about it. Why can't you run your 300!!
 
jamartin01 said:
That doesn't sound right if you ask me. I raced my Service Honda 500 in 450B at OIR last year and no one ever said anything to me about it. Why can't you run your 300!!
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The CRA's viewpoint was my bike was "originally" manufactured to compete in the 250 class under rule #38. That is why I went to Yamaha who then sent an email to the CRA explaining my bike is supposed to compete against 450's. Your AF-500 more than likely was in the CRA's opinion originally manufactured to compete in the 450 class (251cc-unlimited). Why my bike can't race the same class........
 
Sometimes I dont get the CRA. I am a member but some of the rules are just plain silly. I dont see any reason why you cant race that bike. In fact I thought it was supposed to be the other way around. That this was legal on the local level but not the pro. Wasnt Gibson looking to run the 300 in the 450 and had to go back to a 250 jug to race? Either way I agree you should be able to race it.
 
streaks383 said:
The CRA's viewpoint was my bike was "originally" manufactured to compete in the 250 class under rule #38. That is why I went to Yamaha who then sent an email to the CRA explaining my bike is supposed to compete against 450's. Your AF-500 more than likely was in the CRA's opinion originally manufactured to compete in the 450 class (251cc-unlimited). Why my bike can't race the same class........
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I see what you mean. I guess I just figured that rule change they did a litte while back just opened up the "250" class to 250 2 strokes. Allowing a rider to pick between running the 250 or 450 class with their 250 2 stoke. So they are saying that 250 2 strokes only belong in the "250" class now that they changed that rule?
 
jamartin01 said:
I see what you mean. I guess I just figured that rule change they did a litte while back just opened up the "250" class to 250 2 strokes. Allowing a rider to pick between running the 250 or 450 class with their 250 2 stoke. So they are saying that 250 2 strokes only belong in the "250" class now that they changed that rule?
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That is exactly what they are saying. I support helping local level riders with costs by promoting 250 2T in the 250 and 450 class, however I think limiting them to the 250 class only is counter productive. And my case, I spent the money to make 2T close to competative BHP wise with the 450's and I am not allowed to race against them. Further more I am 30 years old now but not fast enough for a vet class and I don't want to race 250C with all the kids who would kill me for a trophy if no one was looking. I feel I could be competitive in 450C class so I built a bike for it. The 450C class seems to have alot less kamakazi pilots and people who race like they are Chad and Bubba chasing millions. Until I can get my speed this is the class I want to race, when/if I can get fast enough Vet classes here I come!
 
Rule #38 should be deleted. If you really want to you can make that rule apply in other situations as well that are just nonsense.

For example, if I have a 1997 RM125 that bike, according to the class list is eligible for the "Bomber" class. However, that bike was never originally manufactured for the "Bomber" class so the contradicting rule 38 makes it illegal. There are NO bikes that were originally manufactured for the Bomber class so according to that rule there can never be anyone entered in the class.

Same thing with the Womens class, Vet classes, etc.

Also, by rule #38 no 250 2-strokes should be allowed in the "250" classes......because the "250" class is really the old "125" class and 250s were not manufactured for that class. They were manufactured for what is now the 450 class as stated above.

Bottom line, that rule is too vague by just stating "must remain in the class...." and can open up and complete mess of violations that don't even make sense.
 
The problem started when the rider signed up for the 250C and 450C on the same bike. This is what raised the red flag. CRA tried to make things simple by adding rule #38- 250's-250 class 450's-450 class. There were problems in the A class last year with this with Lt Wt $ and Hvy Wt $, so we now just have one Pro class. The 450 guys were complaining that the 250's could ride two classes and they couldn't so to make things fair it is now just one class. It has been brought up that maybe the classes should just be A, B, C (125cc-unlimited) Then there are going to be riders that don't like that so you just can't make everyone happy.
The CRA meeting isn't until July 11th so that is why you haven't gotten a response back yet. The rules are in place for this year. AMA rules are different and they even have different rules between their amateur and pro classes.
As for this year you can ride-
+25, +30, 2 stroke, Extra-- This sounds like an ultimate Vet bike!
Dave Hand
 
streaks383 said:
The 450C class seems to have alot less kamakazi pilots and people who race like they are Chad and Bubba chasing millions.
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....I see this all the time. Seems like many think they are the next Bubba/RC/Chad and are justified in the assumption the entire track belongs to them. If your that fast you shouldnt have any problem going around a slower rider without jerpordizing one another.
 
handracing said:
The problem started when the rider signed up for the 250C and 450C on the same bike.
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How can someone race 450C on a 250 when the CC limits for the class start at 251cc? To me the CC definitions of the class are plenty to keep riders in the correct class and also allow for a big bore scenario.
 
handracing said:
The problem started when the rider signed up for the 250C and 450C on the same bike. This is what raised the red flag. CRA tried to make things simple by adding rule #38- 250's-250 class 450's-450 class. There were problems in the A class last year with this with Lt Wt $ and Hvy Wt $, so we now just have one Pro class. The 450 guys were complaining that the 250's could ride two classes and they couldn't so to make things fair it is now just one class. It has been brought up that maybe the classes should just be A, B, C (125cc-unlimited) Then there are going to be riders that don't like that so you just can't make everyone happy.
The CRA meeting isn't until July 11th so that is why you haven't gotten a response back yet. The rules are in place for this year. AMA rules are different and they even have different rules between their amateur and pro classes.
As for this year you can ride-
+25, +30, 2 stroke, Extra-- This sounds like an ultimate Vet bike!
Dave Hand
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Dave what I don't understand is per the manufacturer I am complying with rule #38 by racing my bike in the 450 class, also I am riding a YZ-300 not a 250 which also puts me in the proper CC range for that class. I can't see what rule is being violated by allowing me to race my YZ-300 in the 450 class. I can present an invoice from Eric Gorr at forward motion for the 300 thing or I can take my bike some where, tear it down and let anyone you want measure the bore size. I as a member of WRMC have seen the CRA make exceptions almost all the time when circumstances are not covered in the rule book. Why is it so much to ask for someone to look objectively at my situation, see I am in compliance with 38, have a 300 cc (295 exactly) and being it is a 300 and not a 250 also in compliance with the disclaimer that says no 250cc two stroke will be allowed to compete in the 450 class. Seriously what am I not in compliance with? What does it hurt to make an exception in the spirit of fairness to let me run in the 450 class if I am still in violation of something? Do I have to grind the serial numbers, stamp in new ones and title my bike as a custom to be allowed to race in the 450 class. Seriously, I am not looking to step on anyone's pride or get into a peeing match. I just paid to have a bike built for the 450 class and desperately want to race it there. If I have offended you, the CRA or anyone else I apologize sincerely. I feel I am getting the short end of the stick here which is why I went public on this. I humbly ask you to look at this issue objectively, if I am in violation of something please explain what and how. I love this sport, I love the CRA and all of the promoters and tracks that are putting on races for all of us to enjoy.
 
But where are the 125, 144, 350, and 500cc racing? Yeah most "motorcycle" classes start at 125cc (if age), but that's just because the 125 is the first "big bike."

The #38 has just as much ruleiness on deciding whether or not you can race a 300cc in 450C. 450C is listed as 251cc-unlimited. So that just brings in what Hand said, rule #38 was only made to stop people racing the same cc bike in both the separate cc classes.

Maybe we should just name them "Motocross" and "Lites."

Not that there are many quad riders on these forums, but how about the CRA rulebook for Quad MX classes? Gives you Woodsman class, then tells you too look at the definition of Woodsman, in which it states, "for the avid trail rider." I don't remember seeing trails on my local mx track for racing MX. All for it if it's the GP or harescramble classes, but how about just making the (simple......) C class for quads? Then you can make Open= B class. That way no one can get protested because they used common sense and thought anyone and anything can race in the Open Quad class like the Open Bike class. And this is because of the last part of rule #29, which we all know needs looked at more closely.

And I don't know if the 2011 book has been fixed but there were a lot of spelling/grammmerr errors in the rulebook a few years ago.
 
A. Make that "one" exception (no flood gates opening here...) and let streaks383 run 450C!

PitRacer said:
Also, by rule #38 no 250 2-strokes should be allowed in the "250" classes......because the "250" class is really the old "125" class and 250s were not manufactured for that class. They were manufactured for what is now the 450 class as stated above.
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...and B. The above (250t's in 250f classes) should be another one thrown out the window! Nothing like seeing a 250t 5-10 bikes ahead of the pack going into the first corner!
 
First of all I'm not offended at all. Just trying to explain the rules to you. This rule has been in place for a couple of years now. It was changed to make a fair playing field. There were a lot of complaints from 450 riders that they were limited to ride only the 450 classes and 250 guys were able to ride both the 250 and 450 class. We did change the Pro class to one class to cover all sizes. That may be something to be looked into for next year- A, B, C. When you bought your bike it was a 250 (#38-The machine must remian in the class in which it was originallly manufactured) You bored it to a 300-the problem was you were wanting run that bike in the 250C and 450C class. The problem when you make exceptions is that then everyone wants exceptions made for them which defeats the whole purpose of having rules. Rules can be changed and looked into for the following year but they need to be put in writing and reviewed by the track promoters. The problem is that you can't make everyone happy and everyone has their own ideas what works best so the CRA does the best they can for the majority. I'm not sure what the spelling/grammar errors from "a few years ago" have to do with the 2011 rule book but I'm sure if you find something wrong it can be corrected. Peggy works very hard proof reading the rule book and she should be thanked for the time that she puts into that.
 
handracing said:
First of all I'm not offended at all. Just trying to explain the rules to you. This rule has been in place for a couple of years now. It was changed to make a fair playing field. There were a lot of complaints from 450 riders that they were limited to ride only the 450 classes and 250 guys were able to ride both the 250 and 450 class. We did change the Pro class to one class to cover all sizes. That may be something to be looked into for next year- A, B, C. When you bought your bike it was a 250 (#38-The machine must remian in the class in which it was originallly manufactured) You bored it to a 300-the problem was you were wanting run that bike in the 250C and 450C class. The problem when you make exceptions is that then everyone wants exceptions made for them which defeats the whole purpose of having rules. Rules can be changed and looked into for the following year but they need to be put in writing and reviewed by the track promoters. The problem is that you can't make everyone happy and everyone has their own ideas what works best so the CRA does the best they can for the majority. I'm not sure what the spelling/grammar errors from "a few years ago" have to do with the 2011 rule book but I'm sure if you find something wrong it can be corrected. Peggy works very hard proof reading the rule book and she should be thanked for the time that she puts into that.
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Dave,
You have been misinformed or I did not make myself clear at the race. I signed up for 450C, I was called back to sign up and informed I was not allowed to race this class despite the fact I have a 300. I was told I could only race 250C or a vet class (which I am not ready for yet). I raced 250C after pleading my case several times, asking for my money back, changing my mind and signing up for 250C because I was denied 450C. At NO point did I sign up, express intent or in anyway try to race both classes. I have a bike which has been built to race against 450's and that is what I tried to do. I only want to race the 450 class, I have no interest in competing in 250 class. I am asking to be allowed to race in the 450 class exclusively.
 
Dave,
Also I have that email from Yamaha which was sent by Yamaha to the CRA and is included in the first post of this thread that says my bike was manufactured to compete against 450's. Does that hold no weight? Thanks again Dave.
 
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