CRA class issues

Scott- yeah I was under the assumption when you came to see me race day that you were wanting to ride the 250C AND 450C class. I think the question came up when you signed up for the 450C class and put 250cc (not 295/300) on your slip. Yamaha can not dictate CRA's class structure. I get what you want and it will be discussed at the CRA meeting. That's all we can do.
@Pitracer- This rule (#38) was made for the 250/450 class specifically and these kinds of problems. Not the bomber class. Everyone tries to tweak the rules to go the way they want. The class structure has changed now there is no 125 class it's a 250/450 class thanks to four strokes.
We work on rules every year and are always willing to take suggestions into consideration. Thanks for the input and we will take everyone's thoughts to the meeting.
Dave
 
CRA is honestly such a joke. I was told I can't race my 250f in the 450 class, so I bought a 250 two stroke and i'm still not allowed to race it. In the rules it said that the bike had to be between 251cc's and 450cc's in order to race the 450 class. I've honestly been riding a stock bike telling people it's a big bore, more competition! I'd say race that thing, screw 'em!
 
CRA has lost sight of why we race, to have fun. The 250 2stk was made to compete against other 250 2stk bikes. The 450's were made to race against the 250 2 stk bikes. It is clear that is how they were manufactured. So you have some cry babies upset because the guys on 250 2stk bikes get to race more classes .... wahhh so what, buy another bike or shut up ! That is what they should have done. Instead they have catered to one group and displaced another. Traded one side for another. One group of riders wins and another loses what they had. Makes absolutely no sense what so ever. And to top it off the CRA lost money on the deal, your 450 riders still cant race any more classes than before, the 250 2stk guys cant race as many classes as before and now you have 1 pro class instead of two. Lost more money. So a guy wanted to ride his 250 2 stk in both classes , was someone afraid of losing > Now the track promoters and the cra as well as the riders ALL lose.

Makes no sense to me at all, lets all just shoot ourselves in the foot !!!!
 
@Pitracer- This rule (#38) was made for the 250/450 class specifically and these kinds of problems. Not the bomber class. Everyone tries to tweak the rules to go the way they want. The class structure has changed now there is no 125 class it's a 250/450 class thanks to four strokes.

Yeah Dave I get that, I'm just pointing out that when you have such a vague one-sentence rule printed in the rule book you are lining yourself up for all kinds of interpretation problems. Just imagine if this rule applied to LL qualifiers how much chaos would be going on!
 
Scott- yeah I was under the assumption when you came to see me race day that you were wanting to ride the 250C AND 450C class. I think the question came up when you signed up for the 450C class and put 250cc (not 295/300) on your slip. Yamaha can not dictate CRA's class structure. I get what you want and it will be discussed at the CRA meeting. That's all we can do.
@Pitracer- This rule (#38) was made for the 250/450 class specifically and these kinds of problems. Not the bomber class. Everyone tries to tweak the rules to go the way they want. The class structure has changed now there is no 125 class it's a 250/450 class thanks to four strokes.
We work on rules every year and are always willing to take suggestions into consideration. Thanks for the input and we will take everyone's thoughts to the meeting.
Dave

Dave,
Sorry about writing 250 on the sign up sheet under engine size, just an old habit. I want to make the 3 hour drive from Columbus to race at your race on the 10th, you run such a good program. But before I make the drive i need to know, will you let me run my YZ-300 in the 450 class as long as no one protests. If you can't/woln't I am not going to waste my time on the drive up. Those Vet guys are fast and I dont want to drive 3 hours to ride 1 practice, race a total of 8 laps where I am just running around by myself so far in the back people give me those sympathy cheers (awe that guy is trying so hard, lets show him some support). If I can't race 450C and have some folks to compete with who don't want to knock me down for a trophy it is not worth my time. So if you need to think about it, its cool I get it, but I am humbly asking you to concider my engine displacement and skill level and in the spirit of fairness and love of racing let me race the 450 class, please give me a reason to come Thanks again for taking the time.

I was not suggesting Yamaha dictate the CRA class structure, what I did not understand was who decided what engine displacement a bike was originally manufactured to compete against. Clearly it is the not the manufacturer, but it is the CRA. This confuses me some but so be it, if that is how it is then I guess I can't do much about that.

I am so close to putting my bike in the garage and taking up fishing, as a rider this sucks.
 
It is interesting to see I am not the only one that has had issues with this. I was protested last year at a CRA event for riding my "KX250" in 450B. My KX250 is a 500 conversion and was written as such on the sign up slip. I assumed I was being protested because it is not a production bike blah blah blah but once I confirmed it was a 500 motor was good to go. I think a lot of people have strayed too far from we are here to have fun mentality. Isn't that why we all ride in the first place?
 
I'd probably just run it and sign up as a 249cc and wait for someone to protest me....

Maybe cup contendors and points chasers would throw down a protest. That's tough, i'm sure they'll revise it soon enough in good fortune with Hands and Peggy sitting around the negotiating table.
 
I know the Hands reputation and have seen Peggy at work. I have seen Peggy and heard about Dave bending over backwards to make things right for the racers. I have seen Peggy personally in action and how she has made exceptions to vague or unfair rules on the fly, I am just asking for that, but for me this time.
 
Thanks Scott and we are working on this right now. Phone calls have been made and discussions started, we can finalize things at the meeting. We need to make sure wording is clear to avoid more confusion-and it is understood correctly. Don't put your bike away-you won't like fishing I've tried it! We would love to have you come up for Pro Day-it's going to be a great day. Ok- now I have to get to work. Dave
 
Fishing is boring and if you are in the back of the vet class then run it cause I am back there always looking for someone to race with.
 
This is an interesting thread. Rules are meant for people who break them not those who follow them, and there is always an innocent party that is caught in the middle.

While this could easily have ended up being a ***** session, reading Dave's response and seeing the conversations go towards something constructive is awesome. There is more to the Hands running a track than just great ground prep...they have the wisdom to understand why we are all here and work hard to make things as good as they can be.

thanks
 
While this could easily have ended up being a ***** session, reading Dave's response and seeing the conversations go towards something constructive is awesome.

thanks

I agree, I am starting to have a warm and fuzzy again and I really appreciate the attention Dave is putting into this matter. He has already made calls and started conversations and took the time to talk with me on here. I think this is going to work out.
 
CRA is honestly such a joke. I was told I can't race my 250f in the 450 class, so I bought a 250 two stroke and i'm still not allowed to race it. In the rules it said that the bike had to be between 251cc's and 450cc's in order to race the 450 class. I've honestly been riding a stock bike telling people it's a big bore, more competition! I'd say race that thing, screw 'em!
lmao. what a joke.
 
125 can race 250 class and compete and do well.
250 2 stroke can race 250 class and murder a 250f
250 2 stroke or bored out 250f can't race 450c and have a huge disadvantage = fail to the CRA....just my two cents.............I just sold my bored and ported 125 and picked up a stocker.......probably just gonna end up selling it with my 250R and picking up a 450 and just race college and 450B.........
 
I found this thread to very interesting, and mostly positive. One thing I have learned over the years is that no matter how well the rules are made and updated, you'll always have a few people looking to exploit loopholes in wording to give themselves an unfair equipment advantage as opposed to following the "spirit and itent of the rules", which is to keep the hardware more evenly competive so the better rider can win. I can understand the difficulty the CRA faces in having to constantly close these loopholes and change the rules to cover all the new equipment changes every year, which always opens new ones. As a result, the once simple race rules become so complicated that you need a team of lawyers to determine if you and your bike is legal in a specific class. I can also empathize with guys like streaks383 who try to follow the spirit and intent of the rules, and end up getting stuck in one of those former loopholes that was probably not intended to be closed on guys like him.

I guess the one thing that I'm not getting in this thread is the genesis of this rule. It's been a lot of years since I raced on two wheels, but in the olden days, you could race anyting as long as it was UNDER the maximum cc's for the class. If you wanted to race your 125 in 125, 250, and Open class, you could do so. You were at an obvious disadvantage in the bigger classes, so noboby cared or protested unless the disadvantage was creating a safety issue on the track.

As I read through all this as an impartial observer, what I get from this whole situation is that some guys on 250s were talented enough to take not only their class, but the 450 class as well, and the 450 racers were more upset with the more talented racers "invading" their class than with any equipment "advantages" the 250s have over the 450s. The new rules seem to be more based on keeping those 250 guys "in their own class and out of ours" than addressing any unfair equipment advantages the smaller bikes could possibly have. Maybe somebody can enlighten me if I have this worng. I guess the question is, "would these 250 guys be winning the 450 class if they were riding 450s?" Maybe somebody can point out the advantanges the 250's have over the 450s in the 450 class, and then explain why they would even make a 450 if the 250 was at an advantage. If the only reason this rule is in place is because "he gets to race two classes with his bike, and I can't race my bigger bike in a smaller class", it was probably a mistake to create it to begin with. If somebody kicks my big bore butt on a smaller bike, it sounds like a rider skill level problem, and not an unfair equipment advantage to me.

Okay, last bike I raced had two rear shocks, and Im not very up to date with all the new bikes, but I'm open to being educated here. Why is my observation worng?
 
I found this thread to very interesting, and mostly positive. One thing I have learned over the years is that no matter how well the rules are made and updated, you'll always have a few people looking to exploit loopholes in wording to give themselves an unfair equipment advantage as opposed to following the "spirit and itent of the rules", which is to keep the hardware more evenly competive so the better rider can win. I can understand the difficulty the CRA faces in having to constantly close these loopholes and change the rules to cover all the new equipment changes every year, which always opens new ones. As a result, the once simple race rules become so complicated that you need a team of lawyers to determine if you and your bike is legal in a specific class. I can also empathize with guys like streaks383 who try to follow the spirit and intent of the rules, and end up getting stuck in one of those former loopholes that was probably not intended to be closed on guys like him.

I guess the one thing that I'm not getting in this thread is the genesis of this rule. It's been a lot of years since I raced on two wheels, but in the olden days, you could race anyting as long as it was UNDER the maximum cc's for the class. If you wanted to race your 125 in 125, 250, and Open class, you could do so. You were at an obvious disadvantage in the bigger classes, so noboby cared or protested unless the disadvantage was creating a safety issue on the track.

As I read through all this as an impartial observer, what I get from this whole situation is that some guys on 250s were talented enough to take not only their class, but the 450 class as well, and the 450 racers were more upset with the more talented racers "invading" their class than with any equipment "advantages" the 250s have over the 450s. The new rules seem to be more based on keeping those 250 guys "in their own class and out of ours" than addressing any unfair equipment advantages the smaller bikes could possibly have. Maybe somebody can enlighten me if I have this worng. I guess the question is, "would these 250 guys be winning the 450 class if they were riding 450s?" Maybe somebody can point out the advantanges the 250's have over the 450s in the 450 class, and then explain why they would even make a 450 if the 250 was at an advantage. If the only reason this rule is in place is because "he gets to race two classes with his bike, and I can't race my bigger bike in a smaller class", it was probably a mistake to create it to begin with. If somebody kicks my big bore butt on a smaller bike, it sounds like a rider skill level problem, and not an unfair equipment advantage to me.

Okay, last bike I raced had two rear shocks, and Im not very up to date with all the new bikes, but I'm open to being educated here. Why is my observation worng?

Makes a lot of sense to me!
 
So if I put a 250 2 stroke engine in a 450 frame does this mean I have to run the 450 class... rules stupid, make it like ama, the 450 class is basically an open class and for those who only have a 450 there's age classes and extra bike, its cra its not big time racing let people have fun and simply race
 
I think part of it was because some guys were doing at the faircross, and it was easier to squeeze a 250 through those tight tracks than it was a 450. They're still underpowered though. Oh well.
 
ok a 450 was designed to race against the 250 2 strokes but now it cant????

does this mean a 125 2 stroke cant race against the 250 4 strokes???

this dont make sense at all....
 
Back
Top