Ok- What Really Happened to D-12?

GeorgiePorgie said:
Would you have raced back in the day if there were 50 classes and 3 guys on the gate? And at nearly every race there was nobody to go bar-to-bar with you?

No. Ain't like it used to be in the glory days! Wish I grew up back then! Country had jobs, people were racing. There weren't 10,000 classes.
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YUP sure would have. I am a racer not a rider. I like to ride with my friends and spend the day at the track but i would choose racing over riding just like i did last weekend. Unfortunately i have not had the opportunity to race as much this year as i would have liked but it wasn't from practicing too much, if i have the opportunity to race i choose that over riding.

I am 43 so i have been through the "glory days" and it was great! The turnouts at the 20 tacks having practice every weekend show that there are just as many people with bikes who enjoy the challenge of "riding" still today but I guess they just don't enjoy the challenge of "racing" as much. OH well to each their own. As long as people are having fun on a dirt bike thats what matters!! Best sport i have ever been a part of and i just hate to see it in the state it is now.
 
fmxpaul said:
Now wait a minute... that does not sound right at all. Sure maybe low low turnouts at the end caused that scenario but are you telling me "The allmighty Evil AMA" caused the death of D-12 because of the demands and fees? C'mon- if that was the case districts would be folding all over the country. Are they? Which ones? Seems a bit like "We hate the AMA" for whatever reason. Thousands in the hole before the first racer came? No frigging way, that's BS
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Like I said, it was not a D12 promoter I was talking to. It was for a national event in the Extreme Dirt Track Series. Its got to be frustrating to a promoter when the AMA makes as much as they do, for as little as they provide to get the event done. Someone else eluded to that fact that all you get for your money is the AMA name, with no help in promotion or much of anything else.
 
Tom said:
How long is D- 11 going to last?? The last time results were up dated on their web site was 9/3. The minutes from the meetings was last updated in April.
If it rains you better not go. They will cancel. LOL
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Seems like the answer to the original question might be answered here with District 11 and the current District 11 tracks. Sounds as though it's slipping away as well.
 
I guess only the major players will ever truly know and they 'aint talkin'. F'ing shame.
Hey I just got an email from WNY Racing- They're giving away a decked out 2013 YZ250f at their Year end awards.

Yeah, I think the best D-12 ever did was give away a silly Pit bike.

It sucks that WNY racing is so far away, but it looks like those people know something that the folks around here, simply don't. I know where I'll be racing next year.
 
mblair said:
YUP sure would have. I am a racer not a rider. I like to ride with my friends and spend the day at the track but i would choose racing over riding just like i did last weekend. Unfortunately i have not had the opportunity to race as much this year as i would have liked but it wasn't from practicing too much, if i have the opportunity to race i choose that over riding.

I am 43 so i have been through the "glory days" and it was great! The turnouts at the 20 tacks having practice every weekend show that there are just as many people with bikes who enjoy the challenge of "riding" still today but I guess they just don't enjoy the challenge of "racing" as much. OH well to each their own. As long as people are having fun on a dirt bike thats what matters!! Best sport i have ever been a part of and i just hate to see it in the state it is now.
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I can agree with that. I don't want to race myself for 25 a class. I'd rather pay 20-25 to practice myself all night. I raced two times this year where I had an all out battle with a kid I used to race 10 years ago on superminis. And after I came off the track I said to my dad who tagged along: "if racing was like that every weekend I'd be racing. "

Apparently it still is but in other states. So I'll have to travel to have some great racing.
 
Rogers365 said:
Paul, just curious. Did you go the battle at Briar cliff. Have you been to malvern in the last couple months?
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I have never been to Briarcliff (hoping to go this weekend for the 1st time) and I have not been to Malvern other than to walk it and that was almost 15yrs ago.
(I have been hearing that Malvern is not the same place it used to be, in a good way)
I did not do the B.C. Battle because I just did the Area 51 thing and could not make both events, however I was trying to make it happen.
You cam PM me anytime for any information you'd like.
 
fmxpaul said:
Now wait a minute... that does not sound right at all. Sure maybe low low turnouts at the end caused that scenario but are you telling me "The allmighty Evil AMA" caused the death of D-12 because of the demands and fees? C'mon- if that was the case districts would be folding all over the country. Are they? Which ones? Seems a bit like "We hate the AMA" for whatever reason. Thousands in the hole before the first racer came? No frigging way, that's BS
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Well, some of the things I mentioned and I'm not sure about thousands Paul but , yes you had to lay out a bunch of cash before even 1 racer signed up. No one "hates" the AMA, I had been a member for Many years. But those are some of the facotrs. I wish they were still around, really miss my Broken Spokes!
 
Its pretty easy to be thousands in the hole before the first racer hits the gate.

1. Awards
2. Insurance
3. T-shirts
4. Diesel Fuel


Those are least four things you need before the race, meaning you pay for upfront. For the Battle, we spent $4000 on 3 of the 4.
 
And what'd you make??

Yeah, none of my business, but keep in mind the original question. What happened to D-12?

Not what's wrong with this track, that track, me, you or anything else. It's to answer the question.

So it's possible to be thousands in the hole, but the term ROI means everything and always has. Knowing your returns does not make it "the hole" now does it?

No offesnse meant and I hear the "last great track" in Ohio is Briarcliff, so I'm not trying to argue with you by any means. I'm hoping to bring a group out for Saturday.
 
fmxpaul said:
And what'd you make??

Yeah, none of my business, but keep in mind the original question. What happened to D-12?

Not what's wrong with this track, that track, me, you or anything else. It's to answer the question.

So it's possible to be thousands in the hole, but the term ROI means everything and always has. Knowing your returns does not make it "the hole" now does it?

No offesnse meant and I hear the "last great track" in Ohio is Briarcliff, so I'm not trying to argue with you by any means. I'm hoping to bring a group out for Saturday.
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LOL, it didnt stop there. I spent around 10-11K on the Battle. The numbers are out there, go to the most viewed and replied thread on this site, do some math, and you can figure out what we made.

Now imagine you did only spend $5000 on a basic local race. And it takes 5-6 times the effort of what a practice takes to put on due to organization of people, sponsors, etc. You are working 5-6 times as hard, no problem. Practice is cake. And lets say for your efforts, you get a decent turnout (by todays standards) of 200 entries, and lets say 100 spectators. So thats $5000 in entries and $3000 in gate. Assuming no break for the second-third classes, and you aren't paying Pro's very much. So, you made $3,000 to work 5-6 times harder. And that doesnt sound bad until you factor the cost of running the business as whole, not just the costs for the race. Motocross promoting is expensive. I spend more every year in operating costs than what i make at my day job, no problem.

Like I said, I bet the turnouts and the high expense of running a track probably burnt out the D-12 guys. Just wait til April when Tim does his next last ride at Scenic and ask him.
 
Again- with all due respect- I get what you're saying. But by your own logic, it's merely a matter of time before you're burnt out on the "track" thing. Same for every track in the country. It's simply a matter of time before everyone gets sick of working too hard, for too little money because operating an MX track just is not worth it. Right?

That's the part I just have a hard time swallowing. I believe D-12's downfall was a Complete and total failure in leadership and teamwork towards the end. That's just my guess and I just wanted to see if someone would speak up and tell the real story, is all.

If running an MX track is simply, monetarily NOT "worth it" then Loretta's is doomed and so are we as riders because eventually, you'll all be gone and we'll have to put street tires on our dirt bikes or go ride in the woods somewhere with a sticker on our fenders.
 
@fmxpaul from mike@dirtworldmx

Got this in a text "hey George tell Paul to go **** himself. I'm on an old computer and can't post for some reason. "

Im only the messenger.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Now imagine you did only spend $5000 on a basic local race. And it takes 5-6 times the effort of what a practice takes to put on due to organization of people, sponsors, etc. You are working 5-6 times as hard, no problem. Practice is cake. And lets say for your efforts, you get a decent turnout (by todays standards) of 200 entries, and lets say 100 spectators. So thats $5000 in entries and $3000 in gate. Assuming no break for the second-third classes, and you aren't paying Pro's very much. So, you made $3,000 to work 5-6 times harder. And that doesnt sound bad until you factor the cost of running the business as whole, not just the costs for the race. Motocross promoting is expensive. I spend more every year in operating costs than what i make at my day job, no problem.
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Thats the rosey scenario! What about when the weather turns to crap, and you get 100 entries and 50 spectators or worse, and you have to work 10 times harder???

Promoting MX is as risky as farming. Some events can really roll in in when weather cooperates, but you can just as easily loose your butt. Ohio weather can even kill turnout at an indoor event. Promoters take incredible financial risk, and earn every dime they make, and if they were "greedy" they would be investing in something with a better and less risky return.
 
Pretty sure the cliff just invested a high dollar piece of farming equipment to disc the track. Bet that was cheap and I bet he's way in the positives already this year.
 
Why the he11 is the state split into 2 districts anyway? Is it really necessary? Look at the size of D19, D21, D23, heck even D5. D5 goes from the southern tip of West "Good God" Virginia to Erie PA and from Huntington all the way over to Harisburg. What's the point of the split here? Mabey if it were all one it might be able to survive.
 
fmxpaul said:
If running an MX track is simply, monetarily NOT "worth it" then Loretta's is doomed and so are we as riders because eventually, you'll all be gone and we'll have to put street tires on our dirt bikes or go ride in the woods somewhere with a sticker on our fenders.
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Im just offering a reason why D12 folded. I think its more than worth it to have an Mx track. There are other things that come along with owning a track besides money. Friendships, memories, riding experiences. Its all good stuff.

Looking forward to meeting you this weekend.
 
TimSr90 said:
Thats the rosey scenario! What about when the weather turns to crap, and you get 100 entries and 50 spectators or worse, and you have to work 10 times harder???

Promoting MX is as risky as farming. Some events can really roll in in when weather cooperates, but you can just as easily loose your butt. Ohio weather can even kill turnout at an indoor event. Promoters take incredible financial risk, and earn every dime they make, and if they were "greedy" they would be investing in something with a better and less risky return.
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Its more risky than farming. Farmers can buy insurance against bad weather. I dont think thats out there for us.
 
Perhaps Mike should find a computer that works and explain it all. Gee, that would be helpful now wouldn't it?
 
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