Mosher
PR Founding Father
A lot of those who did not stay aren't racers in the first place. They ride the other tracks and trails on both ATV and bikes.
BC Moto Revolution Rnd III April 7th
- Thread starter BriarcliffMx
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A lot of those who did not stay aren't racers in the first place. They ride the other tracks and trails on both ATV and bikes.
Scoob
PR Founding Father
Different strokes for different folks John.
I myself do not understand the notion of practicing and then not racing either. I mean, why practice? What are you practicing for? How do you know if the "practice" is paying off if you do not test it?
Of course there are some that just race. Never practice. Don't get that either. I guess some do it for the exercise. Don't like pressure. Aren't competative. Feel they have nothing to prove. Can't do it two days in a row...
Take your pick.
One thing I was thinking about yesterday though was how damn lucky I am. Lucky to have a class track practically in my backyard with an owner who cares. One who it is brutally obvious that he puts profits+ back into the facility and isn't afraid to raise the bar and/or try something new. Takes pride in delivering the best he can in a place/district to ride. . Lucky to be able to do the little I can do to help out. Lucky to still be able to do it and "think" I can get better...although the left knee has been awful angry at me since Sunday... Thanks a million JO and crew. Keep it coming. I'm back in the game. Ride on!!!
I myself do not understand the notion of practicing and then not racing either. I mean, why practice? What are you practicing for? How do you know if the "practice" is paying off if you do not test it?
Of course there are some that just race. Never practice. Don't get that either. I guess some do it for the exercise. Don't like pressure. Aren't competative. Feel they have nothing to prove. Can't do it two days in a row...
Take your pick.
One thing I was thinking about yesterday though was how damn lucky I am. Lucky to have a class track practically in my backyard with an owner who cares. One who it is brutally obvious that he puts profits+ back into the facility and isn't afraid to raise the bar and/or try something new. Takes pride in delivering the best he can in a place/district to ride. . Lucky to be able to do the little I can do to help out. Lucky to still be able to do it and "think" I can get better...although the left knee has been awful angry at me since Sunday... Thanks a million JO and crew. Keep it coming. I'm back in the game. Ride on!!!
MarctheSharc
PR Founding Father
So John, now that you have a few kids all the copulating should be over right? Why would you do it if you don’t want any more kids?
By keeping the same thought process and changing only the activity ......do you see how your statement becomes ludicrous.
Meister
PR Founding Father
We are indeed extremely lucky to have the tracks and track owners that we do. Ive been to so many places where the tracks are ok and the people suck.. Then again ive been to places where the track sucks and the people are good but dont have the ambition or plain old knowledge..
We are so lucky for a state that can only ride half the year..
We are so lucky for a state that can only ride half the year..
nitrofish
PR Addict
The reason for the 2 quads race was due to the fact that there was no other place to put them. This was the Atv micro class which is 50cc and the youngest kids. The other 3 mini quad classes were stacked on 1 gate, 12 in all. These classes ranged from 70cc to 150cc. It would not have been safe to run them with these classes, not to mention they would have been lapped twice and not got their 4 laps in. I would have rather seen the 70s and 50s combined and the other 2 classes combined, it would have been the same amount of motos none the less. I think all the kids should get the same amount of laps as everyone else, even if they are slower. The bigger bikes just need to go faster to speed up the program.
Strouble
PR Addict
The reason for the 2 quads race was due to the fact that there was no other place to put them. This was the Atv micro class which is 50cc and the youngest kids. The other 3 mini quad classes were stacked on 1 gate, 12 in all. These classes ranged from 70cc to 150cc. It would not have been safe to run them with these classes, not to mention they would have been lapped twice and not got their 4 laps in. I would have rather seen the 70s and 50s combined and the other 2 classes combined, it would have been the same amount of motos none the less. I think all the kids should get the same amount of laps as everyone else, even if they are slower. The bigger bikes just need to go faster to speed up the program.
Good to see you and Fast Jack again and quads do suck, hahaha. Actually I accept and embrace the quads. They had a good showing at BC! The quad riders themselves are pretty cool too. We should have taken the slowest of the three mini quad classes and gated them with the the other two riders...or BAM! Open up the C track at the battle for some of the youth classes. That is a good size track. That will speed things right up and the riders still get a fair deal.
Strouble
PR Addict
As a MX community and family, we need Good tracks, Good people, and Good Family. We have to work for it to happen.
nitrofish
PR Addict
Good seeing you again and all that make it happen. We are fortunate to have such great places to ride/race from North to South. One of these days with the quad comments, you are going to have 50lbs of energy wrapped around your head! Lol. He loves ya! He's a dirt biker too, I just did not let him race it yet. I'm trying to get him used to the new motor on the track packer. Don't tell him but he has a new KX 65 hidden till his birthday! See ya soon! So where and when do we break our bikes out? People will think that we are just practice riders!
mooch
PR Elite
As much as the practice vs Race topic has been raised here and other forums, I'm surprised that anyone still questions why someone just track rides for fun! There are guys who harp against riding for fun, who I've seen actually race...how ironic when I couldn't help but think... why are they so gung ho for racing when they do so poorly at it? Yet, no one tells them what they should or should not be doing when it comes to racing vs riding for fun.
TBO
PR Addict
Good point.
John250
PR Founding Father
I have always been a racer, and would prefer to race over going some where to practice all day. Just me. I would think that guys that ride BC all the time though would be able to get a decent finish at BC running the same track all the time.
To each their own.
Sharc, I totally understand. I suppose I am a pro practice at some things, and do like practicing quite often.
To each their own.
Sharc, I totally understand. I suppose I am a pro practice at some things, and do like practicing quite often.
washel157
PR Addict
With the new ownership of this website, the name should have been changed to "Pit Practicer"
John250
PR Founding Father
Brenner......Think you and I are in the minority around here, that both of us would rather be racing when we can.
Scoob
PR Founding Father
Moochie! Been a long time.
You hit a good point there. It's all in what makes it fun for folks. I myself, ride for fun. Obviously I'm not doing it for the money as any spare I have seems to go to the sport, not come from it. For some, "testing" that and challenging others is the only way to have that fun and/or adrenaline rush. Others, I guess tooling around the track at either a slow or rather quick pace is all they need.
It is a topic that comes up from time to time. I don't sweat it though nor try to througuhly understand it. I just roll with it. I always know that if I want to practice, I can find some folks who want to do that. If I want to race, well, there seems to be some of those as well. Never 40 riders worth other than at Vet Fest, but some I guess...
John and Washel, you're not alone, just more vocal here and there about it. See you at the practices and races...
You hit a good point there. It's all in what makes it fun for folks. I myself, ride for fun. Obviously I'm not doing it for the money as any spare I have seems to go to the sport, not come from it.
For some, "testing" that and challenging others is the only way to have that fun and/or adrenaline rush. Others, I guess tooling around the track at either a slow or rather quick pace is all they need. It is a topic that comes up from time to time. I don't sweat it though nor try to througuhly understand it. I just roll with it. I always know that if I want to practice, I can find some folks who want to do that. If I want to race, well, there seems to be some of those as well. Never 40 riders worth other than at Vet Fest, but some I guess...
John and Washel, you're not alone, just more vocal here and there about it. See you at the practices and races...
TimSr90
PR Addict
Not sad at all. That is a very enouraging number if you analyze it correctly, and supports my disagreement to the reasoning that weekend practices discourage race turnouts or that you can corral people into racing with schedule manipulation.
Nobody wants to learn how to ride a track during competitions. People like to learn at practice, build confidence, and eventually SOME will decide they would like to take their learned skills, match them against others and compete. Others will either never have that confidence, or just never have that urge, or simply would rather ride in that laid back practice atmosphere of not being on the track with a bunch of other people who wish to defeat you. Yet others will want to compete, but do so in that laid back unserious atmoshphere, buy a 3 wheeler and race with OTC.
If you have 400 praticers, and 400 racers, it means you have no new potential up and coming racers. You are not growing the sport. If you are not growing with new people at the same rate people, are leaving, for whatever reason, you are in decline. Your turnout for today is great, but your future is bleak.
If you have 400 practicers, and 288 racers, it means you have 112 people practicing who currently do not race, which means a certain percentage of them are being groomed into the sport, and will likely begin competing at sometime in the future, to replace those who are retiring, or dropping out for other reasons, which ensures a better turnout for tomorrow even though today is not high as you'd like it to be.
As for the practicers who will never race, they are vital to funding those practices to create potential racers, and bringing their buddies with them who might wish to eventually compete once they are introduced to a track, and begin riding it.
The overall goal of practice needs to be far more than just encouraging those who already race to polish their skills if the sport is to survive. It is for grooming new racers into the sport by being the bridge between informal trail riding and formal track racing.
While the Braircliff location might be a bit of a hindrance for race attendance, it's location is a huge asset in luring trail riders onto the track.
The numbers are enouraging. Racer numbers are a falling edge indicator of where you are today. Practice numbers are a leading edge indicator of what is to come tomorrow. Concentrate on getting practice numbers continuously improving, and your racer numbers will follow.
washel157
PR Addict
I don`t feel that just riding and practicing grows the "sport". If your not competing against someone it cannot be called a sport. Correct? Can you help grow the "sport" of trail riding? I don`t think so. All of the bike manufacturers promote their top bikes as race ready or race proven, not practice ready. Nobody wants to race because it cost too much for bikes and everything else. Bike sales are down, bikes costs go up because the majority is now putting on 10 year old 2 smokers. I`m really really passionate about motocross and just feel that racing competition is the only way to make the moto economy get better and keeping more tracks open.
John250
PR Founding Father
Brenner I agree on keeping tracks open, people are going to have to go to the races. JO was just talking about his insurance might be changing for practice days. That laid back atmosphere may be changing to a structured practice, with flaggers, medics etc if his insurance company forces him too. And in my opinion, they should have more structure to open practice if your having 400 riders show up on a Saturday (no slam JO, I have never been to BC for a open practice).
Tim, I understand your point........but Brenner and I (and many others on here) have been around the sport a long long time. So lets look at this another way. Say in 1993 (20 years ago) if Kenworthy's (BC is the new Kenworthys on caliber of track quality) had a open practice on Saturday, they would get 250 riders (and they usually only ever had a practice day before the national, never before a local race). But on Sunday race day, Kenworthy's always averaged any where from 500 to 700 riders depending on the day. So if a track the quality of BC is drawing 288 on race day, and COCR (ran same day and hour away) probably drew 150 riders, you are still far less than the turn outs we used to see 20 years ago. So is the sport dying or growing? It concerns me when 1/3 of your crowd does not stay and race.
The less new bikes manufactures sell, the more they will cost to pay for the R&D and what not.
Tim, I understand your point........but Brenner and I (and many others on here) have been around the sport a long long time. So lets look at this another way. Say in 1993 (20 years ago) if Kenworthy's (BC is the new Kenworthys on caliber of track quality) had a open practice on Saturday, they would get 250 riders (and they usually only ever had a practice day before the national, never before a local race). But on Sunday race day, Kenworthy's always averaged any where from 500 to 700 riders depending on the day. So if a track the quality of BC is drawing 288 on race day, and COCR (ran same day and hour away) probably drew 150 riders, you are still far less than the turn outs we used to see 20 years ago. So is the sport dying or growing? It concerns me when 1/3 of your crowd does not stay and race.
The less new bikes manufactures sell, the more they will cost to pay for the R&D and what not.
TimSr90
PR Addict
You're not alone in your thought process. Most of us non-AMA racers got the impression that those now defunct AMA districts felt the same way. We read it as "If you are not ready to fully commit the family budget, and are not an experienced fully equipped racer ready for competition we don't want to deal with you." The places with the alternative attitude of "beginners, toe in the water testers, and learners welcome" are still around. Of course, thats about like handing out birth control in an effort to increase the adult population by reducing the number of infants. The focus is on why the same people aren't still coming around to support the sport as opposed to why they haven't been replaced by new people, which is where it should be.
I'm curious as to where you believe racers come from, and if your very first riding experience was a committment to a season of competition.
TimSr90
PR Addict
Your thoughts support my assertion that the overall pool of racers is shrinking. The sport IS "dying" because more are leaving than entering. I keep pointing out that I believe too many promoters and organizations are looking at the short term gains of trying to compete with other tracks to capture a larger share of the existing pool of racers instead of the long term gains of working to increase the pool of racers. How do you do that? Where do racers come from?
I believe the practice Staurday, race Sunday format will be a long term winner.
I couldn't agree more. To keep the integrity of this event and the race forum in tact let's close this thread on a good note for once
This topic is important and I'm sure it'll be debated for years to come but it's Thursday and it's time to start thinking about where to race this weekend.- Status