An open and candid discussion about GP Racing

BriarcliffMx

BriarcliffMx

PR Founding Father
After my first GP I can honestly say that was a nice change of pace, great for fall riding. I will admit that I wish more people would tolerate more of the big track to help ballance out the woods to mx ratio. Our numbers yesterday were on the lower end of my prediction. I thought 100-150. We had 91 or so. My question is what do we do to get more people to these types of events? GPs have been running for a long time now, so the it's new excuse can't be used. I hear a lot of talk about we want this, we want that, but probably just a lot of talk. I would bet money that the 10 class schedule for mx would have lop sided results as well. People love to talk and gawk about stuff, but no walkie the talkie. So what kept you from attending a GP this season, not just yesterday. Is it the class structure? Did you think it would be too muddy? Weather? Is it too long, would 25 minutes be better? Be honest, we really need honest up front feedback here. Don't think I won't ask you face to face, here's your chance to respond and avoid me!
 
BriarcliffMx said:
After my first GP I can honestly say that was a nice change of pace, great for fall riding.
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We (the boy and I) love GPs. I'm afraid the feedback you get will be all over the place and you'll gain no
consensus on how to improve. For us the reasons were easy - there was a flat track and by the time
we got the notice it was cancelled due to rain we couldn't get there.

I'll note though that all the worry about class structure is, to me, pointless. I go, especially
to a GP, to ride and have fun. Finishing top places of a +50 class doesn't make me much
happier than finishing 17th in a Vet class. As long as the track is fun and I rode OK, I'm
happy.

If I had to put a reason on the question "why don't more people come out to race our GP?" I'd
guess that everybody is too specialized these days. Some guys won't go to a motocross with
monster jumps, some won't go if there aren't monster jumps. Hare scramblers don't MX, etc.
You're market size is fixed by the number of folks willing to do something different on occasion
and then it's (like us) a timing issue.

Good luck though, hope you do more. Was your turnout enough to make you want to do another?
 
Sturd's comments are pretty accurate.

1) class structure is a non issue
2) TIMING is everything and for the exact reasons Sturd mentioned. It does seem that the numbers are improving and I hope that trend continues since I think the GP's are just what people want but they don't realize it yet; especially the +35 crowd.

Track layout should be how John (Pit261) has expressed. I have always felt that they should be less MX and more trails but after reading the responses I feel that the OMA's layout of using a large portion of their MX tracks may help turnouts. Do not decrease ride time, 45 minutes is perfect.
 
I misjudged the weather. I got burned out on mud races after attending a string of vintage races this summer that were pretty muddy and wasn't looking forward to another muddy event.

At about the time that I was getting ready to load up at home for the 3:00 50+ class it started raining pretty good. When I looked at radar, it sure looked like the BC area was getting hit with it too. So yeah, I messed up. Class structure or layout had nothing to do with me making a bad decision.
 
A funeral kept me away yesterday.

The OMA/BC GP format is tried and tested, allowing for virtually all bikes, riders and class sizes.

Wet weather seems the norm this year but when the weather is iffy and the promoter hasn't cancelled just arrive for the first session and some decent conditions can usually be found sometime during the day. Once at Fast Traxx this year the radar looked like it was raining all day but not a drop on the track until the last lap of the last bike session.

Really just need to get people out to give it a try. One time to get the hang of it and a second time to get hooked.

Incentive to get some local pro off-roaders and motocrossers out? A challenge? Love to watch those guys go at it.

GP track practice as a portion of a regular practice day? Just get all the regular BC practicers out for a GP race day and you'll have the numbers.
 
I will take MX over a GP series everyday. I have no interest these days to do a GP.
 
Some of my thoughts as Broc and I talked this morning, we talked about combining the 65s and under and running them on a shortened track where the parents could see them more, and not have to worry about them in the woods. Also considered a 30 minute session the am for GP newbs, maybe a couple sessions at 30 minutes to attract more guys, but have the regular sessions after that. Hardcore in the afternoon. Also talked about having them on Sunday because a lot of the shops are working, plus we might be able to hold GP practice Saturday to let people get their feet wet (no pun moto guys, I swear) without committing to anything. The idea there is get them to try it. I think we all know that once they try it, the majority would probably do at least one per year for fun.
 
I should of went. Family/school kept me out this weekend. School load is retarded. And I'm taking care of two houses right now for my dad.

92 is a good turnout for the GP. Tv lands was like 40 ? However 92 won't allow these events to continue. Promoters need to make some money. Breaking even is no fun.
 
And break even at 92 does not let the event grow, some promoters want that break even point higher, because they are providing a better event for the riders, not just making money.
 
Fall Sports

As I stated on Facebook, Fall sports kept us away. It makes it tough to practice, and/or race with soccer going on. With that being said, we did load up and drive 1:45 to Fast Traxx for the last night motocross after the soccer game. On the way home, the boy commented on it being a great day, doing 2 of my favorite things! (playing soccer and racing!) He is 10. With that being said, he is stoked to try a GP and see what it is like to race for 45 minutes non stop.
 
Perhaps we need to advertise this series on Vitalmx, somehow get the word out more. Because I think pitracer holds the moto crowd. At tvland this year I asked some poeple if they have been on pitracer and everyone I asked that questions was in disbelief about this pitracer site. "What's pitracer?"

I think to really beef it up there needs to be a more aggressive advertising campaign. OMA already is very aggressive, but to the moto crowd. Gotta bridge the gap for people who aren't on this site....

I don't know though really....People are so busy these days.
 
k01 said:
A funeral kept me away yesterday.

The OMA/BC GP format is tried and tested, allowing for virtually all bikes, riders and class sizes.

Wet weather seems the norm this year but when the weather is iffy and the promoter hasn't cancelled just arrive for the first session and some decent conditions can usually be found sometime during the day. Once at Fast Traxx this year the radar looked like it was raining all day but not a drop on the track until the last lap of the last bike session.

Really just need to get people out to give it a try. One time to get the hang of it and a second time to get hooked.

Incentive to get some local pro off-roaders and motocrossers out? A challenge? Love to watch those guys go at it.

GP track practice as a portion of a regular practice day? Just get all the regular BC practicers out for a GP race day and you'll have the numbers.
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I agree that if you can tap into the regular "practicers" that come on a BC weekend you have a nice size turnout. With a facility like Briarcliff you could eliminate the woods, drop the sessions to 30 minutes, link together the Big Track and C Track with a grass track and see an increase in participants. At the same time the traditional GP Formula will be lost. I am a fan of 50/50 woods-moto combo, but you have to appeal to the market demands when selling a product. The BCGP was a step in the right direction with 91 riders, but there should be 150+ participants with all the riders living in Central Ohio/WV/PA.

Anyone who has not yet raced one of these events in its current format may not understand:

-The "woods" are nothing more than a wide track though the trees. This is not an enduro or anything remotely difficult.

-First-Turn drama is greatly reduced with the dead engine start.

-Anyone who does not race much or wants to get into racing can participate without the pressure of a traditional MX moto.


For the record I am not a hardcore woods rider or GP guy. I love Motocross and do all the jumps and obstacles on most MX tracks, including BC. It is just really fun to do something different once in a while.
 
Gp's on Saturday kill it for me Jeremy. Drew says he has better crowds on Saturday for his Gp's. Who knows. Gp's are definitely the best bang for the buck. I just wish more were on Sunday
 
Spilldawg444 said:
I agree that if you can tap into the regular "practicers" that come on a BC weekend you have a nice size turnout. With a facility like Briarcliff you could eliminate the woods, drop the sessions to 30 minutes, link together the Big Track and C Track with a grass track and see an increase in participants. At the same time the traditional GP Formula will be lost. I am a fan of 50/50 woods-moto combo, but you have to appeal to the market demands when selling a product. The BCGP was a step in the right direction with 91 riders, but there should be 150+ participants with all the riders living in Central Ohio/WV/PA.

Anyone who has not yet raced one of these events in its current format may not understand:

-The "woods" are nothing more than a wide track though the trees. This is not an enduro or anything remotely difficult.

-First-Turn drama is greatly reduced with the dead engine start.

-Anyone who does not race much or wants to get into racing can participate without the pressure of a traditional MX moto.


For the record I am not a hardcore woods rider or GP guy. I love Motocross and do all the jumps and obstacles on most MX tracks, including BC. It is just really fun to do something different once in a while.
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X2. First time racers need to race these gp's. Just a way more laid back kind of race compared to mx. First turn drama...JO got his fired on the 2nd or 3rd kick and got to the turn first, mine finally lit right after he got his going and when I rounded the turn my brother was still sitting there on the line and just got his started. My bro and I are definitely not dead engine start, xc racers lol.
 
For me personally, I would like to see the MX season wrapped up by the time the GP series starts. With a racing budget in mind I can't be racing a GP on Saturday and then plan on being at Malvern on Sunday (hind sight is 20/20 today). Not only the cost of racing but I can't afford breaking parts and not making a race the next day now that I'm committed to a MX series.

Especially with the shorter days, shaky weather, and other fall activities I'd much rather plan on racing a GP than a MX event once we get into September.
 
KTM555 said:
X2. First time racers need to race these gp's. Just a way more laid back kind of race compared to mx. First turn drama...JO got his fired on the 2nd or 3rd kick and got to the turn first, mine finally lit right after he got his going and when I rounded the turn my brother was still sitting there on the line and just got his started. My bro and I are definitely not dead engine start, xc racers lol.
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Mine started, and I looked you guys and I looked at ken again to make sure he threw the flag......rookie mistake, I should have just took off. I thought maybe I jumped the gun.....nope. I'm a dumas. It was actually the first kick, I screwed up!
 
The GP class structure at Western reserve is good. 30 Minute races by class then the 45 minute race open to all classes seemed perfect to me. We raced that one 2 years ago. Plenty of bang for your buck. However being a Harescrambler/ Woods rider and self admitted "Spode" that can't jump (And never will at 48) It was scary with guys doubling over your head to the point that I'm not interested in going back. I know the motocrossers don't agree but big jumps are way more of a disadvantage to woods guys than woods are to moto guys. The grand prix concept is awesome but crossing over in either direction seems too difficult for most guys. The number of guys that are comfortable with both is small. Just my .02
 
91 sounds like a great turnout for a GP. I figured people would like the GP format. I personally don't get much enjoyment from the trails but I hope the series survives to give people other options.

Georgie, we're working hard on expanding the audience. We actually have a marketing strategy for the first time. We're about to exceed 2,000 facebook followers this week. That's 1,000 increase in two months. We gained about 400 new PR users the past two months. I don't want this site to be another vital or thumpertalk, which seem to be just talk between strangers. What makes our site special is the bond between riders and tracks. Also the guy you're talking to on here is also lined up next to you on the gate. But like you said we're just scratching the surface of mid-west riders and track owners.

Sorry to get off-topic. Back to GPs. Try one. You'll be surprised how much fun they are.
 
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