Chilli Town MX
PR Addict
We do not want to eliminate quads at CTMX either but we do want to understand how to improve numbers. What needs done to boost their attendance? JO- you are their best advocate. How do we get their support?
So, what's the Quad Excuse THIS week?
- Thread starter Vet261
- Start date
Been a fly on the wall here and as much a I personally like events with no ATVs, like some of events named above when I ran the Bluegrass Series, I ran the same if not more ATV classes than OMA does now. I tried Sat ATV only races (big flop and expensive), big purses, etc. As a race promoter you have to run ATVs on the same day as bikes to make it work financially. My target ATV number was 10% of entries. The only reason I tried to move ATVs was to address bike guys request.
Being a southern boy, there is one series that was left out of list above and really it's the biggest in the eastern USA and its the Mega Series and a couple of things to note, they have well over 40 classes, some events close to 50, run ATVs and start on time (every time) and are playing the national anthem at 9:45AM every time on raceday. 700 riders, 800, 1200, or 500, does not matter it's like a machine.
The best parts of the Victory model are your answer to run big gates/ big events and get done by 5PM. There are a couple of items I would avoid related to staggers, but most I adopted into my series and had no problem running my biggest event (950+ at Mammoth East). I had ATVs, 40 classes, got practice done in 1:45 and was done racing by 5PM.
It's a flow and the key is getting practice done within 2 hours and banging out those gates, as well as and trying minimize race stoppages that are not necessary.
ATV racing isn't the problem or the number of classes. And really if the promoter is cool with the personnel cost, racing until dark is not a problem in my book.
But for my series to cash flow, I had to keep my personnel cost limited to hours of 7AM to 5PM, each day (ambulance too, at 125/hr). Our practice order that I posted the other day was key to getting over events rolling on a raceday, 10 practice groups is a slam dunk in an hour-45. Rider meeting was done the Victory way, on the PA, BEFORE practice started between 7:30-8:00. Nothing kills an hour like an old fashion riders meeting. 99% of that can be done on PA while riders are in sign up line and getting gear on.
If any of you guys want my "Trac Pacs" which have dozens of practice orders, race forms, my PA riders meeting notes, pro purses, flagger booklets, etc, let me know. I'm done running races and would be glad to send the whole file set to any Ohio track owner to review.
Having big turnouts a great problem to have.
Good Luck.
Being a southern boy, there is one series that was left out of list above and really it's the biggest in the eastern USA and its the Mega Series and a couple of things to note, they have well over 40 classes, some events close to 50, run ATVs and start on time (every time) and are playing the national anthem at 9:45AM every time on raceday. 700 riders, 800, 1200, or 500, does not matter it's like a machine.
The best parts of the Victory model are your answer to run big gates/ big events and get done by 5PM. There are a couple of items I would avoid related to staggers, but most I adopted into my series and had no problem running my biggest event (950+ at Mammoth East). I had ATVs, 40 classes, got practice done in 1:45 and was done racing by 5PM.
It's a flow and the key is getting practice done within 2 hours and banging out those gates, as well as and trying minimize race stoppages that are not necessary.
ATV racing isn't the problem or the number of classes. And really if the promoter is cool with the personnel cost, racing until dark is not a problem in my book.
But for my series to cash flow, I had to keep my personnel cost limited to hours of 7AM to 5PM, each day (ambulance too, at 125/hr). Our practice order that I posted the other day was key to getting over events rolling on a raceday, 10 practice groups is a slam dunk in an hour-45. Rider meeting was done the Victory way, on the PA, BEFORE practice started between 7:30-8:00. Nothing kills an hour like an old fashion riders meeting. 99% of that can be done on PA while riders are in sign up line and getting gear on.
If any of you guys want my "Trac Pacs" which have dozens of practice orders, race forms, my PA riders meeting notes, pro purses, flagger booklets, etc, let me know. I'm done running races and would be glad to send the whole file set to any Ohio track owner to review.
Having big turnouts a great problem to have.
Good Luck.
Scoob
PR Founding Father
You guys flip flop in your posts. Hershey in one post you say it's the quads that are the problem and in another you say it's just because there are too many riders and we need a two day, 3 moto event.
And also, how can you call these promoters insane? I'd bet they haven't done anything the exact same all of their existence! They are not confirming the definaition of insanity as they are not participating. One thing at a time. Getting quads and bikes to mix is one issue they are dealing with. They have about a million others they are working on I am certain. Baby steps...if it can work, which I didn't see it not working at Malvern, they'll find it, perfect it, and be the leader in it... Nothing easy is ever worth having...
And also, how can you call these promoters insane? I'd bet they haven't done anything the exact same all of their existence! They are not confirming the definaition of insanity as they are not participating. One thing at a time. Getting quads and bikes to mix is one issue they are dealing with. They have about a million others they are working on I am certain. Baby steps...if it can work, which I didn't see it not working at Malvern, they'll find it, perfect it, and be the leader in it... Nothing easy is ever worth having...
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Woods&Water
PR Member
Why is having two days of racing more expensive than having one day of practice and one day of racing? Im sure there's more to it than what meets the eye, but practice is cheaper, yet the same amount of staff is on hand, right? Still doing track prep for both practice and races too. Do you really make that much more for practice than you do for races?
TowerGal
PR Founding Father
Additional Registration/Scoring Staff, Ambulance, Awards, Race Insurance, and Additional Flaggers. - Those are additional costs that are not needed for practice -
MalvernMX
Guest
The additional cost is in the full flagging staff. Workers for gate and staging. Trophy building worker (I don't pay her much anyway though, lol).Sign up and scoring girls (for this event we had a full sign up staff anyway). Ambulance on site during racing.
Additional cost for the battle race would not be as high due to the large amount of staff already on site. Also the large turnout helps offset the cost. The additional cost for a normal weekend race would absolutely prohibit this from happening.
Additional cost for the battle race would not be as high due to the large amount of staff already on site. Also the large turnout helps offset the cost. The additional cost for a normal weekend race would absolutely prohibit this from happening.
hershey
PR Elite
All I said was quads and bikes dont mix. Never said they were a problem. And the insanity part comes from promoters trying again and again to get them to mix. The quads cant support themselves, bikes and quads like different track conditions and the result is bikes supporting the quad racing effort and many people dont like the extra time involved. The only problem is the people complaining about it. If it makes you feel better lets give the bikes their own race day. Or race big bikes and 50's on saturdays and let the quads have their own day on sunday so they can get out early! The bikes ruin the track for everyone. Maybe if we got rid of the bikes more quads will show up?
The 3 day event wasnt stating a problem at all, just a point to show that the Battle series is obviously big enough to be a 3 day event now.
Both were posted on deaf ears. Obviously when one speaks the kingdom is ruled.
nitrofish
PR Addict
I don't think it's a question of support as it is just fewer quad racers that are out there and getting them all to show up at the same event at the same time. Most of the quad racers seem to be from the north. Malvern seems to always have the largest numbers, except for this past race. They seem to like Saturday nights better. You have to remember also that they have a unique series (nationals) that run from early March to the finish in August. Not many National riders race local in between. Time and money is budgeted for rebuilds and practice. Practice is usually done on private tracks. The machines generally go in the shop after each event and put back in the trailor for the next event on the circus. It's no different than the bike folks that do Loretta's, fresh machine less local racing leading up to the event. The quad family has to do it 9 times during the season. Family and friends are key also. Tight nit group. Travel together, camp together and race together. They have no bitter feelings at all toward any track or bike guys in general. A few have begun to travel out of the CRA zones to try OMA and enjoy it. Numbers will never be huge but will improve. I would suggest posting on ATV riders and working with The Ohio Riders.
footlogicracing
PR Addict
On a normal race day it does not seem to be such a problem for Malvern and you do such a good job of caring for the track to make it the best it can be for both.
That being said I think many would agree with what Dave posted and it is very difficult to combine the two when the attendance has grown so large. I can certainly understand Jeremy's position also..he is a quad rider and it is only natural for him to feel protective.
footlogicracing
PR Addict
Sorry I totally forgot this series is now an AMA Pro Am event. Enough said.
Scoob
PR Founding Father
What? Can't hear you...
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Thanks for putting this to rest. Listen to the words from a promoter that's been around. I'm not convinced we even need 2 hours of practice on Sunday. At Spring Creek we got 1 site lap under caution and the gates started a droppin.
nitrofish
PR Addict
I would like to schedule a group hug session at the Battle. My trailor, your beer, Hershey's wit, JOs electric, my dj crap, Tower Gals crazy group, Knox's... Well I think he would just be entertaining. Anyone else that just wants to feel loved. Oh, I have a curfew, so it would be short.
Scoob
PR Founding Father
I'd rather drink your beer...
hershey
PR Elite
I would get too excited with no outlet. Better count me out unless you want more rabbits
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Thanks Steve, you definitely have a wealth of knowledge. I can pm you an address or just send me an email josborn@briarcliffmx.com We can trade info. Thanks again.
hershey
PR Elite
WAIT.....I figured out the reason the quad turnout was low this weekend !!!! It is all over the news!!
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cuyahoga-county/2014/08/11/boy-george-interview/13935827/
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cuyahoga-county/2014/08/11/boy-george-interview/13935827/
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Effin DHDS01 strikes again........