Scotty810
PR Addict
You are comparing apples to oranges here. A better analogy is: "Would you buy new golf clubs and pay $20 to play all day with your buddies or pay $40 to play 9 holes one time?" That's the difference with open riding and racing.
Why is it that no one is racing in District 11?
- Thread starter washel157
- Start date
You are comparing apples to oranges here. A better analogy is: "Would you buy new golf clubs and pay $20 to play all day with your buddies or pay $40 to play 9 holes one time?" That's the difference with open riding and racing.
We raced 41 races in 07,35 in 08, in 2009 the parents gave it up and the kids moved in and they started at the end of the year and ran 12 races, 2010 we raced 27, this year we have raced 2 both at smith road and have been to the Cabin to practice and the Cliff once. In that time frame I have gotten rid of the gas guzzlers,sold my enclosed for a flatbed, sold my streetbike and generally have tried to eliminate any wastefull spending to save money. As I audit my spending and bills the fact is everythings is going up while my pay has been the same since 07. Insurance and taxes on the house went up avg. of 120 a month, car insurance went up 50 a month, propane is up 400$ more for the year. All these little things add up quick and the fact is when I can get out to ride im going to spend 40$ for my two riders to go all day rather than 150 just in entry fees to go racing.
baxterj787
PR Addict
My $.02: It is time and money. I agree that NOTHING will compare to laying down laps in a 5 lap (or sometimes 4 lap) moto. Having said that, I haven't raced since 2004. I am planning on 2 this year. Spring put a hold on my plans, but I still have a few months to go.
Back on task, BC and 5555 hit it on the head, money is a factor. If promoter wants to do it the right way, he is "gambling" a lot of money and his time to pull it off for 100 "unique" riders. Fewer riders = more losses at the end of the month. If the promoter doesn't do it the right way, people will not like the track, and attendance will drop.
From the rider's standpoint, why pay more money for fewer laps? There are a lot of tracks with open practice / riding. I think this gives riders a better value than paying gate fees, signups, then sitting through a long day for a few laps. Last time I raced, I rode 3 classes just to get time on the track.
My personal solution is riding older machines. I save money by owning a pair of 2002 models. I have $1800 in each one and am just as fast on them as I am on a 2009 or 2010 model. Both are on their original bottom ends / cylinders and are maintained properly. Savings? HUGE. That's where I get my budget to ride. Or race. Ask yourself: do you really need the new bike with the 500 rims and the 500-750 exhaust? Sure, it is neat, but are you going to go faster? What about the money that is going out the door on the bike payment?
I wish we as a District had better financial health that we did 10 - 15 years ago, but we don't. I do hope that the really good places still operating continue to do so and are able to keep their facilities in good shape. I will ride (and occasionally race) wherever I can.
Back on task, BC and 5555 hit it on the head, money is a factor. If promoter wants to do it the right way, he is "gambling" a lot of money and his time to pull it off for 100 "unique" riders. Fewer riders = more losses at the end of the month. If the promoter doesn't do it the right way, people will not like the track, and attendance will drop.
From the rider's standpoint, why pay more money for fewer laps? There are a lot of tracks with open practice / riding. I think this gives riders a better value than paying gate fees, signups, then sitting through a long day for a few laps. Last time I raced, I rode 3 classes just to get time on the track.
My personal solution is riding older machines. I save money by owning a pair of 2002 models. I have $1800 in each one and am just as fast on them as I am on a 2009 or 2010 model. Both are on their original bottom ends / cylinders and are maintained properly. Savings? HUGE. That's where I get my budget to ride. Or race. Ask yourself: do you really need the new bike with the 500 rims and the 500-750 exhaust? Sure, it is neat, but are you going to go faster? What about the money that is going out the door on the bike payment?
I wish we as a District had better financial health that we did 10 - 15 years ago, but we don't. I do hope that the really good places still operating continue to do so and are able to keep their facilities in good shape. I will ride (and occasionally race) wherever I can.
John250
PR Founding Father
Jason you bring up an great point. Some of these same guys claiming they have no money to race have these bikes with $500 rims, $1000 exhaust, and are wearing $500 tech 10's, the latest greatest fashion in gear........but have no money to race, lol. But hey, they look great at Briar Cliff with the numbers on their bikes so they look like racers.......or is that a poser? Like Brenner said, come out and race. At the end of the day, if the "race" tracks close up, the practice tracks will slowly go away too.
As for D11 tracks, no are perfect, but DMC, Dirt Country, Marysville, Chillitown........Have put out a great effort to keep the tracks great on race day in my opinion.
Not one person responded to my other post either.......the one that asked for some facts about what you were complaining about with D 11 "officiating".
As for D11 tracks, no are perfect, but DMC, Dirt Country, Marysville, Chillitown........Have put out a great effort to keep the tracks great on race day in my opinion.
Not one person responded to my other post either.......the one that asked for some facts about what you were complaining about with D 11 "officiating".
dmx153
PR Founding Father
1. I dont have the time I did even 5 years ago.
2. It is no fun racing 5 guys in your class
3. Its too damn expensive, fees, bikes, parts, fuel , food....all of it
4. My woman hates it
I think #4 should be at the top of your list
MarctheSharc
PR Founding Father
Not True...
The major majority of off-road motorcycle and ATV sales are to folks that Never intend to race......And it’s been like that for the last 40 years that I’ve been in the sport.
MarctheSharc
PR Founding Father
Really?.....
I’ve been riding motorcycles off road for 38 years now…because riding a dirt bike gives me pleasure. Racing is just an extension of my riding….not the other way around.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
If all of the "race tracks" close up, then "we're gonna need a bigger boat".
hershey
PR Elite
1. I dont have the time I did even 5 years ago.
2. It is no fun racing 5 guys in your class
3. Its too damn expensive, fees, bikes, parts, fuel , food....all of it
4. My woman hates it
I think #4 should be at the top of your list
LOL Maybe so but I'm still going to do it !
Bingo ! I will ride on free trails before I would stop riding ! I would rather race everyday than any other type of riding, its the competition, focus and intensity I crave. Play riding just doesnt provide that. But I'm stuck riding at practice tracks because of other obligations and $. Death of racing WILL NOT lead to the death of off road riding.
BigYac
PR Member
I blame it mostly on the economy...atleast it is for me. Everything but pay is going up. I myself was laid off again from a school custodial job and at last count have put out over 500 resumes. I have 2 degrees and cant even get anyone to talk to me about a job. Luckily the 500 can go 5 to 10 years between top ends lol Really though, as much as I'd love to get back into some mx and harescrambles I really cant at the moment or have to be selective, meaning cant go too far to race. I'll still ride as many trails as I can though.
Woody
PR Addict
Based on a lot of these comments, most people still want to race, and do race, it's just a handful of times each year rather than every weekend.
So why not just have a district schedule that has a race once or twice a month rather than 3-4 on a given weekend? Just doing a quick add up on the Chillitown results, there were 60 people that raced on saturday that didn't come back for Sunday not to mention that there was another district race 90 miles away.
I know that there are personal reasons why you may only be able to make it on Sat or Sun, but for the most part I would bet that they only have/want to spend the money to race one day a weekend. Why make them choose?
So why not just have a district schedule that has a race once or twice a month rather than 3-4 on a given weekend? Just doing a quick add up on the Chillitown results, there were 60 people that raced on saturday that didn't come back for Sunday not to mention that there was another district race 90 miles away.
I know that there are personal reasons why you may only be able to make it on Sat or Sun, but for the most part I would bet that they only have/want to spend the money to race one day a weekend. Why make them choose?
If there was a series that you could race once a month or maybe twice we would race the series, but that best of 35 stuff is nuts, for what you get. The wife and I raced quads in 07 08 the money we spent racing local I couldve spent traveling and racing the national series and get nice wide tracks with good prep and good awards.
#23_Racing
PR Addict
Not everyone is built to be a racer, but those that love to compete will sit for the 2 hrs.
mblair
PR Founding Father
here is my opinion, take it as you want but i have been doing this for right around 30 years and seen it all come and go but this is the worst i have seen the sport "locally" ever. Allot of the tracks in our area are pretty played out i will agree with that. The promoters need to give us something we want to race on! Put the effort into the track to make people want to ride there! Worked for the Hands at OIR for years. The promoters in our area are more interested in competing against each other instead of for the betterment of the "district". But if you get the"race" tracks working together you still have all the "practice" tracks working against them too and they aren't going to take a hit financially and you can't blame them its a business.
Everyone keeps saying that its just too expensive to race but most of these people will go and practice 1 or 2 days a week. Here is what i don't understand......you have ALL the same costs in going to a track to practice as you do to go and race with the exception of a "gate fee" at most practice facilities. So that extra $7-$10 is really what breaks the bank?
Everyone says that it so much better to practice because you get so much more track time. Just because you are at the practice track for 5 hours doesn't mean you are riding for 5 hours!! I see just as many bikes in the pits that barely see the track at practice days as i do at the races (just my opinion of my observations). So, are you really getting a ton more track time than 2 practices sessions and 2 motos? I think if you broke it down you might be surprised.
I will admit that i am more of a racer than a practicer. No matter how hard i try i cannot give 100% when i am practicing and to get the best out of myself i need to compete. Thats why i started racing in the first place, for the competition and the camaraderie of my competitors. Sure its fun to hang with the fellas and ride, but nothing replaces the competition of trying to beat them!!!
Everyone keeps saying that its just too expensive to race but most of these people will go and practice 1 or 2 days a week. Here is what i don't understand......you have ALL the same costs in going to a track to practice as you do to go and race with the exception of a "gate fee" at most practice facilities. So that extra $7-$10 is really what breaks the bank?
Everyone says that it so much better to practice because you get so much more track time. Just because you are at the practice track for 5 hours doesn't mean you are riding for 5 hours!! I see just as many bikes in the pits that barely see the track at practice days as i do at the races (just my opinion of my observations). So, are you really getting a ton more track time than 2 practices sessions and 2 motos? I think if you broke it down you might be surprised.
I will admit that i am more of a racer than a practicer. No matter how hard i try i cannot give 100% when i am practicing and to get the best out of myself i need to compete. Thats why i started racing in the first place, for the competition and the camaraderie of my competitors. Sure its fun to hang with the fellas and ride, but nothing replaces the competition of trying to beat them!!!
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
It would be Pre-national status, atleast 4-5 days long to get through all the riders!
baxterj787
PR Addict
I am surprised at the attendance for some of these tracks. Some places (Western Reserve, DMC) hits 150-200 entries. That is not far off from the mid to late 1990s figures (at least for DMC. John250, sorry if I am wrong on this one). I am surprised to see the low attendance rates for Chillitown. I am planning on going there sooner than later.
At Kenworthy's, we used to plan for and see over 500 entries on a given Sunday. We had 4 race dates not including Amateur Day of the National. That event was an anomaly. I stopped racing Amateur Day after 1994 when we had almost 900 (!) riders crammed into a 1 day format. (1) 4 lap moto per class, with many classes having 3 divisions.
I tried to have Don K hold an Open Practice day back in that era, but he wouldn't go for it. He hid behind the "insurance" issue.
At Kenworthy's, we used to plan for and see over 500 entries on a given Sunday. We had 4 race dates not including Amateur Day of the National. That event was an anomaly. I stopped racing Amateur Day after 1994 when we had almost 900 (!) riders crammed into a 1 day format. (1) 4 lap moto per class, with many classes having 3 divisions.
I tried to have Don K hold an Open Practice day back in that era, but he wouldn't go for it. He hid behind the "insurance" issue.
Downtown T. Brown
PR Member
Coming from a guy who rarely races anymore (but used to race every weekend). I personally don't have time to ride or race much anymore. Money probably matters for some but not all. I know I am by no means fast and have never been but I like to keep my bike in tip-top shape tires etc. and that costs alot even for peeps who make good money. This is not just a district 11 problem though. I have seen low turnouts everywhere Red Bud, Budds Creek, High Point, District 11 wherever. Big events like ameture days, regionals, etc. seem to still get big numbers but thats about it. One of the biggest things (opinion only) that killed district 11 is fair races. Young or old that don't like to sit around in the summer heat can go to a fair race with milder temps mild jumps no ruts one moto and go home (mx for the lazy) and they pack em in. Evidentaly since Red Bud and Budds Creek are my 2 favorite tracks I'm the minority cause last time I was at Red Bud for a district race their was maybe 275 and a district 11 fair race gets 400+. Sorry I went a little off the D-11 subject with that to prove a point but it's just what I see.
John250
PR Founding Father
DMC can really only hold probably 275 or so entries.....just run out of parking space. It does amaze me how many people race the fair races......Must be something that attracts them to it. I dont think Sat Sun race weekends are a good thing, but understand why chilitown does it, because of the set up needed at the fairgrounds. People just choose to go sat or sunday rather than one or the other. They got hit with rain for the first race (I did not go because it poured at my house an hour away and only drizzled there), and this second race in July was 90+ degrees so that may have held some back along with lake bailee....anyone know how many they had sunday?
I like to ride and practice, but get bored with it when your riding around by yourself. I love being on a gate with no matter how many (more the better), and going to the first turn wide open down the start.....there is nothing better. And I agree with Blair, I never ride as fast I as i do racing when I pratice .......it does not make yourself push yourself.
I like to ride and practice, but get bored with it when your riding around by yourself. I love being on a gate with no matter how many (more the better), and going to the first turn wide open down the start.....there is nothing better. And I agree with Blair, I never ride as fast I as i do racing when I pratice .......it does not make yourself push yourself.
italionstalionmx
PR Addict
I think there are many factors, besides the easy economy one.
D11 Tracks arent that great....I heard nothing but bad about bailee....Dirt Country is built on a dirt parking lot practically....COCR USED to be one of my favorite tracks ever but once Kilbarger came out with the latest layout about 2 years ago? I havnt been there much....even though its def one of the better D11 tracks.....personally i do like DMC, its a lot of fun... Never heard anything good about Treaty City....Fast Traxx is pretty decent...Sunday Creek is now run rediculously and way to expensive to do any racing or practicing there.... And the rest are just filler tracks.... If Highland Lakes was still around, id go to every event, i went there their last practice before they shut down just to fall in love with a track id never be able to ride again... I love the elevation change there, layout, everything! Grumpy valley, Kenworthy, Honda Hills, Wild Wilderness and Muskingum Valley were all closed before or right when I first swung a leg over a dirt bike.... And from what ive heard those were the best D11 tracks on the circuit... Regaurdless
The Fair series, I feel, is also killing all the true motocross tracks. If you want to ride an indoor track, do it in the indoor season....not in the summer I hate the look of the fair tracks therefore iv never ridden on any of them, only watched all the numerous wad ups and hillbillys that bring their junk and race in jeans and cause wrecks....just my opinion though. I feel like if it was taken out all the true MX tracks would prosper again. Also scheduleing multiple MX races on the same day, all D11 tracks, is hurting turnouts too....
And lastly I hate waiting all doing and for me, losing my edge between motos and winding down relaxing then having to gear up and go at it again.... idk where practice i can get there, spend 4 hrs there maybe 5 and ride ride ride! and sit just long enough to get some food in my system and let my arms loosen up then get right back to it!!!!
As for D11 vs D12....i always prefered D12 even though i lived in columbus and was closer to D11 tracks id always prefer to ride D12....practice saturday, race sunday! thats the smart way to do it! and D12 gave 2 practice sessions the day of the race for each rider....D11 gives one and no practice day before....its BS! Specially how most D11 tracks have no open practices and i dont feel like giving it my all on a track iv never ridden...except for 3 or four laps that morning...
D12...id been to Scenic, Spokes, Mid Ohio, SVR, Crow, Beans (all but Western Reserve, and Dirt World).....and multiple times!!!! D11...iv been to COCR, DMC, Fast Traxx, Dirt Country, and Sunday Creek...(and theres tons more on their list like Lake Bailee, TCMC, Lakewood, Chillitown, AMS that i've never been to) and about once or twice to each except COCR iv been there for many practice days and prolly 4-5 races there since 2007 when i started racing.
If any District should have closed it should have been D11!!! RIP District 12!
D11 Tracks arent that great....I heard nothing but bad about bailee....Dirt Country is built on a dirt parking lot practically....COCR USED to be one of my favorite tracks ever but once Kilbarger came out with the latest layout about 2 years ago? I havnt been there much....even though its def one of the better D11 tracks.....personally i do like DMC, its a lot of fun... Never heard anything good about Treaty City....Fast Traxx is pretty decent...Sunday Creek is now run rediculously and way to expensive to do any racing or practicing there.... And the rest are just filler tracks.... If Highland Lakes was still around, id go to every event, i went there their last practice before they shut down just to fall in love with a track id never be able to ride again... I love the elevation change there, layout, everything! Grumpy valley, Kenworthy, Honda Hills, Wild Wilderness and Muskingum Valley were all closed before or right when I first swung a leg over a dirt bike.... And from what ive heard those were the best D11 tracks on the circuit... Regaurdless
The Fair series, I feel, is also killing all the true motocross tracks. If you want to ride an indoor track, do it in the indoor season....not in the summer I hate the look of the fair tracks therefore iv never ridden on any of them, only watched all the numerous wad ups and hillbillys that bring their junk and race in jeans and cause wrecks....just my opinion though. I feel like if it was taken out all the true MX tracks would prosper again. Also scheduleing multiple MX races on the same day, all D11 tracks, is hurting turnouts too....
And lastly I hate waiting all doing and for me, losing my edge between motos and winding down relaxing then having to gear up and go at it again.... idk where practice i can get there, spend 4 hrs there maybe 5 and ride ride ride! and sit just long enough to get some food in my system and let my arms loosen up then get right back to it!!!!
As for D11 vs D12....i always prefered D12 even though i lived in columbus and was closer to D11 tracks id always prefer to ride D12....practice saturday, race sunday! thats the smart way to do it! and D12 gave 2 practice sessions the day of the race for each rider....D11 gives one and no practice day before....its BS! Specially how most D11 tracks have no open practices and i dont feel like giving it my all on a track iv never ridden...except for 3 or four laps that morning...
D12...id been to Scenic, Spokes, Mid Ohio, SVR, Crow, Beans (all but Western Reserve, and Dirt World).....and multiple times!!!! D11...iv been to COCR, DMC, Fast Traxx, Dirt Country, and Sunday Creek...(and theres tons more on their list like Lake Bailee, TCMC, Lakewood, Chillitown, AMS that i've never been to) and about once or twice to each except COCR iv been there for many practice days and prolly 4-5 races there since 2007 when i started racing.
If any District should have closed it should have been D11!!! RIP District 12!
nitrofish
PR Addict
A lot of good points and opinions, the good owners/promoters will take note. I personally don't feel the economy has much to do with the only practicing and not racing factor. If you got the racing in your blood you will spend the extra $ to get that knotted up stomach on the gate. We are in the "MX cycle", on the slide. It is def. the worst I've seen. Bottom line is people just don't want to race and only the folks that do are allowed to complain about the tracks. I whine about every track, there is always something that happens or ya don't like on any given "sun"day. We always return, because we love to race and we shall whine again. But, we will not make it an excuse to not race. There is no doubt the promoters/owners could get their personal attendance up with improvements, but overall MX is in a rut. Until the next generation ages and the kids get the competetive edge we will remain. Get the youth out to the races, get your family out to the races, get your friends out to the races that is what is lost. The ride 15 minutes sit 2 hrs is not a bad thing. That 2 hrs for me at the track is often why I'm there. 2hrs with the family, 2 hectic hrs prepping bikes, 2 hrs bench racing, 2 hrs trash talking, 2 hrs watching my 6 year old hang with his fellow racers, 2 hrs meeting new friends. That is what is lost. As far as the fair tracks, a good thing! How else are we supposed to get exposure? Yeah the tracks are small, it's a fair! Fair races are perfect for the new family getting exposed to racing, easy tracks, 1 moto format, in and out quick and a chance to invite all family members to come watch little Johnny rip it up locally rather than drive 2 hrs to a real MX park. If you are not racing in your local county fair race than you do not support the sport. I miss the Muskinum County Fair races, not a fan of the track but that is the last time my dad seen my boy race due to health reasons, he is unable to make a "day" of it. There are those that race and those that ride. I bred a racer and I can't get it out of my blood (although I am just on a pitbike... too chicken to break out the YZ125 YET). Now, I get the stomach ache twice a race. God, I love it! Oh, Hilliard fair sat. Hilliard fair Mon. Perry fair Tues. Knox fair the 26th Malvern the 30th, Fastraxx the 6th and so on...I will be a carney before these next few weeks are over, the boy will have 38 giant stuffed panda bears wearing sunglasses, I will weigh 10 lbs more from eating elephant ears and the wife will have lost her voice from talking so much. Oh, and Briarcliff in between getting seat time! Where will you be? Matt and Jess. Parents of a racer.