Stuck in a rut

Scoob mentioned that BC ran quads last week, and the track was fine. I have to agree. In my opinion, the quads did not affect BC last week, and NO ONE was complaining that the track was trashed by quads. It stayed nice all day really for the conditions. One thing I did like that CTMX did, was run all the quads first. Then start with the bikes, and it is no different than starting with a prepped track in the second motos.

Shaffer mentioned most guys could not race more than 5 laps.....I totally agree with him. I am good with 5 lap motos.....I am usually done at the end of 5 laps. Are there guys that can go longer? Sure there are a few.....but go 7 or 8 laps, and I guarantee you, most your injuries and accidents on track will come in those later laps.

DD mentions all these people running out of state all the time. Go if you want.....I could care less. But the realities are, most people can not afford to drive 4 or 5 hours a couple times a month to race. So people are trying to improve the tracks that we have in Ohio.

OMA is getting riders......because they are showing tremendous effort, and have good quality track prep, and the tracks are built well. That's why people are going. Two SW Ohio Series races in the last two weeks, combined had 223 entries, and they raced NO quads. Last week, COCR was an hour away from BC.....why did the quad haters not go to COCR?

I am allowed to bitch, complain, and give suggestions since I am racing 20 or more times a year.
 
malvernmx said:
"Too long of a race day
bikes and quads dont mix"

While I will agree the bikes and quads don't mix well on most tracks. That is why we run the split program.

The idea that we are loosing some Ohio riders because they are going out of state to race where there are no quads, there for having a shorter race day is complete B.S.!! I have been running Zack all over the eastern half of this country racing different events. Some lorreta's some not. Almost all of them did not have quads and NONE of them were a shorter race day. My god at the spring classic at mill creek in Alabama it took them three days for everyone to do two moto's. You want to talk about a long boring event! But they probably had a ton of riders right? Nope well under 500. Bottom line is there is no such thing as a short race day unless you want to do GP's and I have solid data proving almost no one wants to do that!
Click to expand...

I think you missed the part where I said.....travel out of state for good racing with full gates at tracks catering to your machine makes the long day and expense worth it..... and I said both quad and bike racers do it.
 
hershey said:
I think you missed the part where I said.....travel out of state for good racing with full gates at tracks catering to your machine makes the long day and expense worth it..... and I said both quad and bike racers do it.
Click to expand...


Yep, sure did. Look we are almost to page 10, I can't remember every part of every paragraph of every post.lol, just kidding Dave. My bad.
 
John250 said:
Scoob mentioned that BC ran quads last week, and the track was fine. I have to agree. In my opinion, the quads did not affect BC last week, and NO ONE was complaining that the track was trashed by quads. It stayed nice all day really for the conditions.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but i heard several riders reference 'flat track racing' and other terms through the day last sunday at BC. Can't wait to see what the track is like next weekend. maybe it will be the same as an OMA race day...maybe it will be different. I know that we stood at Malvern a couple weeks ago, RAVING about the track and BAM, just like that, the ruts were gone in a blink of an eye.
 
High point used to have 3 moto formats on certain weekends back in the 80's. But then they also had some weekends where they raced all three days. I remember a July 4th weekend one year where the 4th was on a Monday, and you raced Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. I used to do that kind of racing for about 17 years steadily until the mid 90's. During the 80's I raced about 60 times a year on avrerage from 1980 to 1988. Most races in D5 were average 4-5 laps depending on the track. D5 was alot more orginized even back then than this whole state is now. Everything was structured, there were actual refs walking the pits looking at bikes making sure they complied with regs. Number plates had to be certain colors depending on class, They followed close attention to peoples points so there weren't cherry pickers and cheaters. and so on with other things
But, even that I don't think would change anything, as honestly, the economy really isn't doing that great right now and 4 strokes are expensive. Actually it might be the expense of owning a four stroke that is causing some problems too. Go to BC and watch the C track, that's actually where I spend most of my time, and you'll see alot of 3 to 10 year old, and older, bikes out there. Probably most don't race, and knowing that they'd be racing someone on a new bike probably kills the idea of trying to compete aganst one.
 
Last edited:
shaker7 said:
Sorry, but i heard several riders reference 'flat track racing' and other terms through the day last sunday at BC. Can't wait to see what the track is like next weekend. maybe it will be the same as an OMA race day...maybe it will be different. I know that we stood at Malvern a couple weeks ago, RAVING about the track and BAM, just like that, the ruts were gone in a blink of an eye.
Click to expand...

There were ruts there if you wanted to use them. C'mon, bikes still flatten the track out somewhat. Quads typically do not like bike ruts and go around them. I need to quit looking at this post to see what silly stuff you guys are typing...

JO and Rogers had a couple good ones... :) Rogers called y'alls bluff. Now what you gonna say? Please say nothing...
 
Last edited:
How about we start a poll and ask everyone's opinion on if they prefer bike quad mix, or bikes and quads on different days, or don't care either way? There are plenty of members and maybe we would be surprised by the results??
 
The thread has been highly entertaining, but regardless of the opinion displayed on here, the people posting represent maybe 10% of the race crowd. I would say that 90% of the people actually racing in Ohio, meaning the the market of potential racers that could come to our tracks, do not post on Pitracer. Now they might read this, but they won't post. However the Pitracer agenda has been received, processed, and filed. I pretty much made a copy of last years input......now let's talk safety.
 
Scoob said:
There were ruts there if you wanted to use them. C'mon, bikes still flatten the track out somewhat. Quads typically do not like bike ruts and go around them. I need to quit looking at this post to see what silly stuff you guys are typing...

JO and Rogers had a couple good ones... :) Rogers called y'alls bluff. Now what you gonna say? Please say nothing...
Click to expand...
*shakes head, looks Down.
 
Vargo671 said:
How about we start a poll and ask everyone's opinion on if they prefer bike quad mix, or bikes and quads on different days, or don't care either way? There are plenty of members and maybe we would be surprised by the results??
Click to expand...

Such a poll would be extremely useful if you had representative sampling, which means means someone would have to conduct the poll in the pits at race events. You would need to ask a few more questions to break things down. its called market research of which very little is done in this sport. Internet speculation is useless.

I would poll a mixed event and a bike only event. Maybe even a practice. (Also a quad only event if one is available) I'd even poll people at non-race riding parks like Bear Creek to figure out what it takes or if its possible to get them racing.

With the question of mixed, different days, and don't care ask it separately pertaining to races and to practice. In addition to this question I'd want to know the following:

Do you ride bike or quad?
What class do you race?

Is race day more of a focused mission, to get your races in, and go home, or is it more of a social event to relax, and hang around the track, and socialize?

Does being sanctioned, points tracking matter to you?

Why did you choose this track today? (Closest too me, no other races scheduled, track prep, no quads, etc.)
Would you be prefer to be at a practice today if one was available?
What are the two greatest obstacles that prevent your from more racing in order of importance?
What are the two greatest obstacles that prevent your from more practices in order of importance?

How many non-racing people typically come to race specifically because you are racing that day?
Aside from the admission fee, how much would you estimate this group typically spends on concessions? Other track vendor merchandise and services?

We've all got lots of theories, mostly based on our own small circle of friends. You could hand out a printed survey to every racer at signup with these or any other questions you can think of. You give a ticket with each survey turned in, and draw for a cash prize at intermission to motivate people to fill them out and turn them in.

Since 1998 I have directly brought now more than 200 racers onto the track, who had not ever raced before. Most were adults. I won't even guess how many indirectly from startup trike groups in other states. Most have been on 3 wheelers, but a number of quads and bikes as well. My own market research has been narrowly focused on 3 wheeling trail riders, (often regarded as "quads") but the main point is that a little actual scientific representative sampling, and research tuned to your areas of concern, an looked at and openly pondered without bias, and you would find that a lot of barriers are easily removed, or reduced. Your not going to find that data on a forum that is narrowly focused in Bike MX.

Its not about deciding who gets their way by majority rule. Its about trying to accommodate the most people with solutions that are at least acceptable to the minority. Sometimes you can fully satisfy most of both with simple solutions. Some people will never be satisfied, and at some point you need to find out if efforts to appease them are too costly for the return. No matter what you do, it will send some people elsewhere. Best you can do is make decisions that minimize the damage. If you try to be everything to everybody, you'll end up being nothing to anybody.
 
TimSr90 said:
Such a poll would be extremely useful if you had representative sampling, which means means someone would have to conduct the poll in the pits at race events. You would need to ask a few more questions to break things down. its called market research of which very little is done in this sport. Internet speculation is useless.

I would poll a mixed event and a bike only event. Maybe even a practice. (Also a quad only event if one is available) I'd even poll people at non-race riding parks like Bear Creek to figure out what it takes or if its possible to get them racing.

With the question of mixed, different days, and don't care ask it separately pertaining to races and to practice. In addition to this question I'd want to know the following:

Do you ride bike or quad?
What class do you race?

Is race day more of a focused mission, to get your races in, and go home, or is it more of a social event to relax, and hang around the track, and socialize?

Does being sanctioned, points tracking matter to you?

Why did you choose this track today? (Closest too me, no other races scheduled, track prep, no quads, etc.)
Would you be prefer to be at a practice today if one was available?
What are the two greatest obstacles that prevent your from more racing in order of importance?
What are the two greatest obstacles that prevent your from more practices in order of importance?

How many non-racing people typically come to race specifically because you are racing that day?
Aside from the admission fee, how much would you estimate this group typically spends on concessions? Other track vendor merchandise and services?

We've all got lots of theories, mostly based on our own small circle of friends. You could hand out a printed survey to every racer at signup with these or any other questions you can think of. You give a ticket with each survey turned in, and draw for a cash prize at intermission to motivate people to fill them out and turn them in.

Since 1998 I have directly brought now more than 200 racers onto the track, who had not ever raced before. Most were adults. I won't even guess how many indirectly from startup trike groups in other states. Most have been on 3 wheelers, but a number of quads and bikes as well. My own market research has been narrowly focused on 3 wheeling trail riders, (often regarded as "quads") but the main point is that a little actual scientific representative sampling, and research tuned to your areas of concern, an looked at and openly pondered without bias, and you would find that a lot of barriers are easily removed, or reduced. Your not going to find that data on a forum that is narrowly focused in Bike MX.

Its not about deciding who gets their way by majority rule. Its about trying to accommodate the most people with solutions that are at least acceptable to the minority. Sometimes you can fully satisfy most of both with simple solutions. Some people will never be satisfied, and at some point you need to find out if efforts to appease them are too costly for the return. No matter what you do, it will send some people elsewhere. Best you can do is make decisions that minimize the damage. If you try to be everything to everybody, you'll end up being nothing to anybody.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your points, but there is a large contingent discussing all topics on this site and I do not see how it would be a negative thing to poll all guests of the site. This is not meant to be negative, just an extension of what many people continue to bring up during these type of discussions. Why not sample the residents of PR??? Is the site capable of a simple poll?
 
BriarcliffMx said:
The thread has been highly entertaining, but regardless of the opinion displayed on here, the people posting represent maybe 10% of the race crowd. I would say that 90% of the people actually racing in Ohio, meaning the the market of potential racers that could come to our tracks, do not post on Pitracer. Now they might read this, but they won't post. However the Pitracer agenda has been received, processed, and filed. I pretty much made a copy of last years input......now let's talk safety.
Click to expand...
JO, it is not meant to be negative, just a simple poll of people who frequent the site. Some talk, but this would give everyone a chance to give their opinion. And yes, maybe only 10%, but aren't most studies done with a percentage of the population?
 
He is not changing his track to bikes only...Does anyone besides me, see this,It's almost ten pages long!!!!! Hahahahahaha Go trikes only day see how many you get!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top