Racing and kids....how to keep the ones you have in the sport!

I hear what you are saying and I am sure everyone would agree he should be barred but do be careful. Make certain you have the legal right to do so or you may end up in a law suit.
 
I would say it is each promoters private property. And if he is not discriminating against them for race, gender, or sexual orientation, they can ban anyone from their property.
 
The referee can basically do what he wants according to the AMA rule book.
"Unless otherwise specifically provided for in these rules, the referee may disqualify any rider, crew member or family member from a race meet for violation of these rules, insubordination or other actions deemed in the sole discretion of the referee to be detrimental to the race meet and the sport. Such disqualification includes the loss of any rights with regard to the event in question and may result in expulsion from the meet site. In addition, the referee is empowered to levy fines of up to $50 and to recommend to the AMA that further disciplinary actions be taken. The referee may also disallow use of a motorcycle determined by the referee to be illegal under these rules."
Let the dude show up, pay to get in the gate, pay to sign up. Then have the referee DQ him for "actions detrimental to the race meet"
That way you get his money and get the pleasure of kicking him out face to face.
Still wish there was a way for the little boy to not have to be penalized for this also. Bad enough what he had to go through. Now he may not get the chance to race cause his Father is a dick.
 
Again, be careful. AMA rule book is not a be all and end all in regards to legalities. We had quite the run in with AMA years ago. What they did was illegal as hell but we found we did not have enough money to fight them. We ended up losing our bike (dirt tracking) in the end or at least most of it. Consequently, we have not much use for AMA anymore. We only join because we have to.
 
I would contened that the AMA rulebook does not carry any weight in a court of law, especially for non-AMA events. If you violate AMA rules at an AMA event, the only enforecment mechanism is to revoke your AMA membership, and prevent you from ever getting another one. Their fines can only be collected if you value your membership enough to pay them. They can throw you out, only if you value your membership enough to leave.

Though an event is on private property, once you open it to the public , you have waived some of your property rights.

The answer lies in the state statutes, which is why I would suggest any promoter consult a real attorney learn your legal rights to evict or ban before a situation ever arises.
 
I doubt that you lose your rights, it doesn't grant you the right to violate the rights of others, but as the landowner you still have the right to ask patrons to leave as long as it isn't for discriminatory reasons. Given this individual I would be the would give us reason rather quickly.
 
If your following the AMA rulebook, and it is an AMA sanctioned event, I am guessing the AMA has the upper hand. People are asked to leave NASCAR Races and property each and EVERY week of the NASCAR season.
 
Right, they can be asked to leave if they are disruptive but probably not barred from further attendance. AMA uses their right to revoke membership or license as leverage. I will briefly explain what happened to us. Our bike was confiscated by AMA out of winners circle over sponsorship dispute. Monday morning Vanderslice SP? called me to tell me they would return the bike to address I wanted at the same time Janson was on the phone telling my husband they were keeping it. Even after AMA was told by District Attorney to release the bike as they had NO jurisdiction to hold it they still retained it. At one point we were told it would be dropped off at Sherriff's station but they (AMA) were told they would be arrested on the spot for theft. Ended up they allowed said sponsor to strip our bike of what he claimed was his and we were given a stripped bike. Many of the parts that were stripped were ours bought and paid for. When we tried to bring a law suit we were told our son would never race again and they would drag the suit out for years irregardless of right or wrong. Were we prepared to spend that kind of money? An article was written by a bystander but it was nixed and never went to print. GO FIGURE!! Unfortunately for us little guys AMA is a government unto themselves and have little fear of us. Lucky for us a fellow Pro rider offered us up a bike so that Erik could continue riding. Numerous riders on the Pro circuit encouraged us to continue to fight but bottom line we just could not afford to do so. In hindsight I wish we would have done so just to prove a point. It was not long after that Erik was diagnosed with a brain tumor and had to quit anyway. Of course many of you know that after his surgery and while on Chemo he turned to motocross and continued to race. Miester will attest that when it came to hole shots Erik was very good...because of the Chemo he was only good for a lap or two before tiring.His number was 38 hence that is why Chris runs 38 and only rides Kawasaki, Erik's choice.

Bottom line is AMA is big enough to do as they like whereas you are not. So again be certain of your rights before proceeding.
 
Any man who abuses a child is no man. He can show his face if he wants but he will get no respect. If he knows whats good for him he will get some counseling and stay the F away from the track.
 
footlogic, I'm assuming you did not get any legal advice from a real attorney. I am NOT an attorney, but I would have told you to file in small claims court. You don't need an attorney, the filing fee is probably still under $20 and I believe the current limit in Ohio is either $5K or $6K. A typical hearing is within 30 days of filing.

Anyone can contact their county bar association and get a referral to consult an attorney. They used to be $20 for 15 minutes but that was years ago. Yo pays a lot of money for insuarnce. Why would anyone not spend a few bucks for legal advice you can use for the term of your business?

I am not an attorney, but I know this:
When you accept money from someone to enter your poperty for a public event, it becomes a mutual contract. You immediately lose the right to expel them from your property without just cause. When you publically sell access to your property for an event, you cannot deny someone entry without just cause.

AMA rules only have legal standing to the point that you have contractually agreed to give them certain powers in advance, but some of those powers, such as seizure of property may not be legally enforceable even if you agreed to them. Contractual law varies from state to state and is governed by state code.

Imagine this scenario:

Mr. Abusive shows up at, say, Briarcliff. You've given his photo to your gate people. He hands his money out the window, and your gate person says "I'm sorry, but you are on the banned list. You can't come in." Mr. Abusive calmly states that you have no cause to deny him, and he is not getting out of the line of vehicles waiting to come in. You call the police, they arrive, and advise Mr Abusive to leave, and tell him its a civil matter. Mr Abusive goes home, adds up all the costs and time he has lost by going there, and sues you for $500 damages, and asks for another $4500 in punative damages for denying his civil rights for turning him away without just cause. He can do this in small claims court.

Congratulations. You now must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that you had just cause to turn him away. What is your defense?

"I read on the internet that he was being an ass at Smith Rd"?

"Last time he was here, he was belligerent, and I told him not to come back"?

"He has a reputation for being belligerent"?

"I was at Smith Rd and witrnessed his behavior"?

"Last time he was here, he was belligerent, but nobody said anything to him about it"?

"People on Facebook were talking about what an ass he is"?

"The AMA rulebook clearly states a referee can deny him entry"?


Will a judge buy all of these, some of these, or any of these?


Last time I say this, but a $50 or $100 consultation to get legal advice from an attorney instead of from Pitracer.com could be a good invetsment. I did it for my business and the info proved to be well worth the money, and your business the likelihood of these scenarios is a lot greatn than mine was.
 
Yes, ask an attorney but coming from someone who WAS banned from a track (A track in Troy because I called a certain someone a money hungry b___. Which was well worth it :rolleyes:) I'm pretty sure you can keep someone out.
But hey, just wait til the track closes and its all good. And since the place closed because they lost the national and could not make the big money, it kinda sounds like I was correct. but anyway....
Let him come in, take his money. Then, as the rule book states, get the referee and DQ him. Im sure he will not just stick around at the track, You know moto can be a very dangerous sport. Lots of areas on and around the track that someone could get "hit by a Bike" and no one would witness it.
 
You can speculate all you want, play devils advocate. If I get sued and lose by this ahole, at least I can sleep at night knowing I did the right thing. The big difference between me and a lot of people is when I get old and gray, I will be able to talk about what I did, not tell them about what I would have done if I wasn't a coward and lived in fear of "what could happen". I will make a stand for what I believe in, this is an issue I believe strongly in. I have never been shy about kicking people out. Now do I ban people forever? no. I eventually give up, bury the hatchet. However, if nobody else is going to stand up for this kid, why cant I? The fact that you would even argue this is sickening to me.
 
No we had an attorney and a very good one. When they seized our bike we were given a receipt in the amount of 5,000.00 for our bike. This did no good. Like I said, even when AMA was threatened by the District Attorney for basically stealing our bike, they disregarded it. It isn't that they admitted no wrong but they basically had the attorney power to drag the whole thing out for years and my son would not have been allowed to race in any AMA sanctioned races. Let me clear, it was not all of AMA it was Roy Jansen who thought he was a god. He at the time told us there was no such thing as a parts sponsor therefore the whole bike was truly stolen. I am fully aware of how small claims court operates and used it over another issue but that is another story. Dirt Tracking back then was a very cut throat entity , there was not a family atmosphere that we have in our local motocross community. Our first mistake was in even allowing AMA to take the bike. They were told that the bike was stolen and even when a friend of ours who was a Sherriff checked and found there was no report filed..AMA disregarded that also. That occurred at the track. It would take a full page for me to explain all that went on. Too bad it was not in this day and age when we have so much social media....the article would have gone viral.
The problem with AMA is as with any large organization they become TOO BIG and can get away with pushing the little guy around. I don't know what the AMA rule book says now but it used to have a disclaimer on the last page stating this rule book is merely a guide line!!! That makes you feel all warm and fuzzy does it not. May as well throw it in the trash can.
 
I can't help but find it somewhat amusing that people are up in arms about this person being allowed to race a CRA event, but then quote everything from the AMA rulebook. It's just funny how everything always turns into the AMA's fault somehow.
 
We are only looking out for you. I would not like you to lose your butt over a butt head. The guys are right, there are other ways to give this guy the hard time he deserves. Yes, according to the rule book the promoter and referee has the last word so look for ways to disqualify instead.
 
True. That is because AMA is the Father of all other organizations. Do you feel bad for AMA? Don't they would turn on you in an instant. No different than politics. OK, I am done. Bringing up too many bad feelings here which I have tried to put behind me so I can still enjoy going to the races!! I think I would be lost if I did not get my fix now and again.
 
This is from the NMA rule book.
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