7 minute moto. If your lucky or slow

Im not an expert by any means, and I like the idea of longer motos. But, I have to say that longer motos would not impact the number of locals at LL each year very much, if at all. First, only 3 more minutes a moto is not going to increase anyones overall speed drastically. It may help with last lap speed, but the speed has to already be there. Also, regionals are only 4-5 lap races. The same as a local race. Sure maybe the race ends up being a minute longer because the tracks are longer, but you're still around your 7-8 minute motos. It all comes down to the start. I could understand if your advocating for longer motos so locals performed better at LL each year, but first they need to qualify and I don't believe longer motos are going to help with that.
 
RocketRobin said:
If we back the truck up just a little bit, let's think bigger picture on some of this stuff. First, Loretta Lynn's has room for 42 riders on the gate in any class, which by all accounts is less than 1 per state in the USA. Add a few Canadians, a few other places (Like Ernesto Fonseca, or Martin Davalos, or whoever is the hot rich foreign prospect that can afford to come here and race) and you have less than 1 rider per state available on the line. And of course you have strong MX states that have a lot of really good riders which take away from other states, but let's stay on track here. Basically you have to be the best in your entire state to have a chance to make it, meaning that locally, you are killing it, and no one is happy when you show up because you are going to win. When you get to that level, you start looking for other places to race, so you have someone to race with. It's a vicious circle of the fastest getting faster, and the others falling behind. The best thing is to ride with someone that pushes you and has the speed to be a Loretta Lynn's type rider, and if we can get more of those home grown riders like that, more will be from Ohio. But the MX Compounds, home schooled kids are taking that away from the local riding buddies that push each other to the limit all the time like when Knox was a kid. The original Pitracer Posse was a group of Vets that rode and raced together in order to qualify for Loretta Lynn's each year. We practiced together, timed our practice motos for long motos to be ready for Loretta Lynn's 20 minute scorchers, and pushed each other hard in order to get better and qualify each year. We went to the same races together (outside of Ohio because of the need for faster competition) and pushed each other all the time. At the races, we cheered each other on, helped work on each other's bikes, and were our own little compound of Ohio guys racing together and trying to make it at Loretta Lynns. It was great fun, lots of riding and racing, and we all got better and pushed each other. We made it fun too, since we were all Vet Ages from 25 - 40 something, we made it fun by riding the +25 class together and having the DQ challenge in our group. We raced the first moto, split into teams with fastest and slowest paired up, and added total second moto scores for the champion of the day. Losers bought DQ for the winners on the way home. And you didn't want to lose due to the ribbing that you took from the other team for the next week about the DQ that you won.

Pushing each other like that is what Knox wants, but it's hard to come by. Everyone has to be on the same page and willing to go along and ride together, help each other, and get to be better racers. We did this for a few years and some of the stories we have are the best memories from riding that I have. I went from an OK CRA racer when we started hanging out, to a regular qualifier for Loretta Lynn's on a yearly basis after a few years of hanging with this group of friends. My riding / racing improved drastically over the mid to late 90's and this was done with the help of my riding buddies that were all from greater Cleveland area. We spent those years at first getting our butts kicked over in D-5 in Western PA, and improving our riding to where the PA boys were bummed when we all showed up at their races because that meant the there was going to be a battle in the Vet Classes. The kids need parents that will help each other out and not just be all about themselves only, and work on getting to the best racing possible from the Ohio racers.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY. Rocket always gets it.
You see this type of camaraderie in the 50 classes and the old guys classes at nearly every track still to this day. When you do have a group that want to push themselves to the next level (and that does not have to be LL) you need more race time to improve race skills. Practice is great for working on specific areas like corning but unless you are very dedicated and have pretty much the track to yourself, it is hard if not impossible to emulate race conditions.
Aside from that, the lack of race time (laps) it is very much a deterrent for a lot of racer. Several on here and at the track have said racing is just not worth it if you have to travel a far distance.
Look, from my view point (which anyone can disagree with) the amount of classes has ruined the sport. We have bowed down to the very small minority that want a special class because they are either slow, old, young, or on out of date bikes. While the majority get less and less just to accommodate. (and this is not even political) Now these classes are so common place the guys racing them believe they are foundation, when they are nothing more then a window dressing or just another revenue enhancer.
The 18 classes that I have listed before are perfect. EVERYONE qualifies for at least 2 or more classes with the exception of the 4 to 6 year old's. Even I have adjusted my class list over the years. Supermini... why you need another mini class I have no idea, but hey... old dog new tricks.
 
L_M_892 said:
Im not an expert by any means, and I like the idea of longer motos. But, I have to say that longer motos would not impact the number of locals at LL each year very much, if at all. First, only 3 more minutes a moto is not going to increase anyones overall speed drastically. It may help with last lap speed, but the speed has to already be there. Also, regionals are only 4-5 lap races. The same as a local race. Sure maybe the race ends up being a minute longer because the tracks are longer, but you're still around your 7-8 minute motos. It all comes down to the start. I could understand if your advocating for longer motos so locals performed better at LL each year, but first they need to qualify and I don't believe longer motos are going to help with that.
Click to expand...
Your almost there... Let me cut some trees down so you can see the woods...
More laps means more race experience. More race experience means faster racers. Totally agree that one more lap will not be the end all be all or the magic potion to bring locals back to national prominence, but it for sure is a step in the right direction.
btw, I don't want one more lap. I want you to get your moneys worth even of you don't want to go to LL. To me, that is 12 min + one. (again, old dog new tricks... I really want 15+1)
 
It would be nice to have long motos, but even at the national level, you only get the LONG motos at Loretta Lynn's Championship, and it takes 5 days of morning till night racing to get through all the classes and motos. At Loretta's you get 20 minutes plus 1 lap, meaning the maximum any rider is out on the track is about 24 minutes. At the regional level, it's still usually a 4 lap race (some get 5 if you are lucky) and if you're at a big track, that might mean a 2 minute plus lap time (so you are talking 8 - 10 minute moto). That's where running multiple classes comes in, and trying to maximize race time when you are at the races...... I always ran 3 classes everywhere, and if they would allow it, I'd run 4 and 5 classes when I could. I'd continually be on the track in another moto racing again and again, of course I was a Vet Rider that could ride Vet Classes, Regular bike size classes, and even two stroke too....... it's not that easy when you are young and on a 65 or 85cc bike, but get out there as much as possible in a race condition and do your best, even if you're tired, or just got off the track, or whatever. In practice, set your watch and ride as long as you can, work up to 30 minute hard motos in practice and you'll be ready for a torrid pace in a race that is always shorter than that. Ride with friends that push you to go harder, ride longer, and keep pushing each other....... it will make you a better racer when you want to make it count.
 
Rocket is right about racing as many classes as possible. On race day little Johnny should be racing in the OMA: 50 shaft, 50 jr and 50 open. That's three classes. That's 3x as much racing experience in one weekend.

I rememeber groaning to jock Jacobs about getting 3rd every week. I had all these 3rd place helmet stickers from him a damn it I wanted the 1st place ones. That's another topic, jock used to give us incentive to do better. I can't expect that from anyone today but that just goes to show the character and love jock had for the sport and I really miss the man. He felt like an uncle to me growing up racing.

Back on topic:


Today you could race many classes on an 85cc or 65cc bike with some slight modifications to the classes in the OMA. make the 65 class 51cc-65cc. And you FAST cobra riders et signed up in the 65 junior class and the 65 open class

So a 7 year old 51cc rider could race sr 50. Open 50, 65 jr and 65 open! That's 4 classes. That's gonna build him into an Ohio Mitchy-killer. (Not digging on Mitch just saying he's the bar for Ohio)

Same thing for 85 classes. Modify the structure from 79-85cc displacement to 65-85cc. Then a fast 65 rider will be able to race 65 sr. 65 open. And 85 jr.

The 125 class is perfectly structured to give kids another opportunity. 100cc-150cc. YET I SAW NO SUPERMINIS ON THE GATE WITH US anywhere the last 4 battle rounds except at CHILITOWN. If you're on a supermini load up in the 125 class. It'll only make you better. Or it will give you another class to smoke everyone on a 125. This class could easily pull a full gate. Age requirement: 10 years old to 99 years old. 100cc machines to 125. That's virtually all 2 stroke schoolboy riders, ALL super mini riders, anyone with a 125 collecting dust in their garage, and anyone who wants to finance one out at the Yamaha shop this week (hint hint). Looking at results for battle round 1. 21 in supermini. 3 of which had a 125. The rest could of signed up in and filled the 125cc gates from 18 that the 125 had....to 36. Yea. 36. Woulda had to flip a few gates on the way end to make room....


My dad would put me in the 60 class on a 50. Everyone was fine with that until they started getting beat.

Same for 65 in the 85 class.

Then again for the supermini in the schoolboy class.

Bottom line really is kids need to race to get competitive. I can practice 20 minutes and feel good out there, look at my intensity in practice it's NOWHERE close to it on race day. My race max heart rate was 212-217. On practice it's 190-200.


Would the OMA entertain changing displacement values to give the Ohio kids more opportunities to race more classes ? Unfortunately the parents will have to sign them up, and chances are they won't be winning. But that isn't the point. Racing is the point. If I have a son and he wants to race 5 classes on race day I'm gonna figure out how to make it happen.
 
Last edited:
Georgie, I must disagree.
The 65 class should ONLY be limited to 60 to 65cc SHIFTER bikes. You have to learn to shift at some point, may as well be on a 65.
And your mindset on the other classes you listed is the exact reason we have 473 different classes. A supermini should be ridden in the schoolboy class. And that is ONE schoolboy class. On a 2 stroke. An adult on a 125 should pick either an age group or the 250 class. Don't get me wrong, NO ONE loves the sound of a 125 more then this guy. But as my buddy J.O. tells me all the time. Its not 1985 any longer.
It sounded like nails on a chalk board when you said "50 or 65 OPEN" class. Not sure what word I hate more in moto "Open" vs. "flow".
ONE 50 class. ONE 65 class. If you want to score them separate by age? Fine, as long as they run together.

Now, your heart rate statement is dead on. Practice does not do what racing does.

But don't forget. You should not have to be in 5 classes to get the same amount of race time you should have in 2 classes.
That saves the racers money so they can go to the next racetrack, next weekend. If the average guy drops $100 at sign-up, he cant keep that up every week, all year.
 
As a noobie speaking, I say you both have valid points.

Last year when my boy was racing 3 classes, he got fast in a pretty short amount of time. This year he is having his struggles getting comfortable with new places, rough tracks, etc, only racing one class. No doubt longer motos would help him because during practice he doesn't run near as hard as he does chasing his buddies in the race. We just don't think he is in good enough shape physically after 6 months off to compete in 2 classes safely. I really don't want to go down that road yet. He will get 2 classes, just needs more seat time.

I agree with Knox, 65 shifter. Period. If you are that fast on a 50, get a 65. Learn how to clutch and shift, the rest of the kids in the 65 class are. There is more to it than twist the throttle and go fast.
 
So a 65 in an 85 class is this ok?

The argument of "we can't afford all these bikes" comes into play. So open up the CC and you got the disadvantaged able to race other classes.

I'm for sure Maley would of slaughtered the 125 class on a supermini.

But how do you let kids race more classes without ADDING classes?! I rememeber doing it all the time. I was always running smaller bikes in bigger classes to get my feet wet until dad came home with that class size bike.

I had a 72cc super peewee for Ponca city in 96 was pulling holeshots at Malvern in the 60 class. I know that's different slightly, but....dare I say but.....I was racing more than average kid on race night by getting into extra classes. It doesnt matter anyway, nothing changes. These Wierd ideas...nobody wants to deviate from the norms. It's all hot air to get people pissy in their pants and stamp an expert label on the users with Wierd ideas. Let's just continue to do the same and cry when Mitchy zaremba smokes the local kid that doesn't have the right opportunities in life. Sigh. If there isn't competition in your class go to another class to find it ? Zaremba barely races local because the local racing scene sucks. Outside of the battle series....ill stop I'm sure I got more than a few people real pissed off now.
 
s1200_dead_horse.jpg
 
2200 view in less then 48 hours... this horse is far from dead.
Just like Demo vs. Repub. Or Mayo vs. Miracle whip, this topic is evergreen.
 
Crazy thing about all of this is I got in to racing at the age of 16. I was too old for schoolboy and I raced C class. I would race 125 C, college boy, and 2 stroke bike.. on a stock 2002 yz125. No mods. My dad told me "you're not fast enough to get a pipe, reeds, or a big bore let alone a four stroke. Get faster and we will consider changes." What did I do? I rode with the college boy class against 450s, got my ass kicked, and stepped my game up. I'm not saying I was winning every weekend but I tried my hardest and worked my ass off. I still look at pictures from when I first started riding to now. I don't even look like the same rider. It's all about seat time.
These younger riders should be discouraged because they are under powered in a big bike class on a supermini. I used to get so stoked when I'd beat a 450 on my old 125. Seeing my dad giving me a thumbs up at the finish, knowing I didn't win but seeing that I worked my ass off to get the 4th or 5th against guys riding B class. Go out there with the faster guys, if you're stagnant and not getting faster, riding with faster riders will get you there.
Sorry if this is off topic, I just saw an opportunity to voice my opinion about being under powered. I did it the entire time I raced. I would even run my 125 in open/450 classes from time to time.
Bottom line, take advantage of the classes available. If you want more time on the track and want to progress, pushing yourself is the only way to do it. Ride one class to win and one class to train if you can't afford to run 3 classes. Just my thought.
Don't give up hershey, keep on reading.
 
Thanks much for the kind words with Mitchy. Mitchy doesn't usually care where we run. He has learned to focus on himself and race himself..meaning the clock. That is goal no matter what track he is at..focus on u and turn faster laps each lap.

The schedule is the biggest thing that gets in the way of our local stuff..between Daytona, Freestone, LL areas.regional.the national itself, Baja Brawl, Mini O's and running the entire National Qualifiers and national in Canada, it leaves us little time for local stuff. Does not mean we don't like our local tracks..we do..Malvern, Briarcliff, Chilli, TV Land, Amherst all have things to offer and a place to work through things and have fun. Recently burned laps on TV Lands corners track. Support your local tracks..really..we would love to be at them more just riding practice even.

I am a huge proponent of just seat time and practice and getting Chris Whitcraft (giving Mitchy a fist pump in below pic at Redbud) with him to work through stuff. You don't need to take gates every weekend..less pressure is a good thing on him and just riding keeps him interested and having fun.

Did get LL 1 ticket this weekend..had a fall in last Moto in the other class that would have added the second class as was sitting in a qualifying class. Mowed down on start of first 85cc Moto.

They ran 5 lap Motos at RedBud for the regional and laps on a 65cc were around 1:49-1:52 for Mitchy. 85cc 1:44-1:48. So back to the reason for the post.. 8 min Motos are enough in my opinion or somewhere close. Not sure laps on our local tracks but I bet 4 lap Motos for most is around that 7-8 min mark...not much different that the national scene for a LL Regional

The biggest difference I see is many local youth riders are not exposed to the different dirt.i.e clay, sand..etc and how rough tracks get with larger gates and more bikes on them..

Leave them rough...I see local boys and girls rip around our tracks..generally smooth..not offending any track owners as I have not been to lately and things may have changed. These same children show up to a national track at it is gnarly ..huge braking bumps, sand, mulch, clay, ruts deeper than their shrouds, and fast straights...all of which they have not seen and they freeze.

Parents..I will say it again..let the tracks get rough..ur kids need to see it. Whether they stay local or go elsewhere they need this experience.
Don't complain to the owners and have them make the tracks flat. This is the biggest reason kids don't get to LL not length of Motos. Most kids never get tired..they are kids. Get um out and practice the rough tracks..no pressure
Just let them get used to it.

Just something to think about.

image.jpeg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top