GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
I started on pdub. And God willing I have a son or daughter and they're interested. Well they'll start on one too.
Growing our Sport ?
- Thread starter hershey
- Start date
JB19
PR Member
This was supposed to be a response to John 250, but I don't see his quote. You're wrong. The first national was in 87'. I also raced a 50 there that year. Guy Cooper won the 125 class. Fred Andrews did really good that day. The trophy presentation was in the announcers tower. I raced the first race for the mini/ quad track on a 60 in 1990. Want me to keep going? Check the facts. I can dig up pictures if you want. Like I said, you're wrong.
MxFreedom33
PR Elite
The little ones are the future .. Defiantly have to make time for them.. I'd rather see more mini classes then a C class... My little one got a PDub for Easter
John250
PR Founding Father
Man, guess if that's the case I have a bad memory. seems like the pee wee track was there sometime in the late 80s. I am old, lol.
Double D
PR Founding Father
Did some racing at Red Bud this weekend.
Sign up...swipe AMA card, Pay cashier, sign waiver, done. 3 windows open.
2 computers for the AMA card, separate trailer for membership sign ups.
They have a second track and gate for the beginner 65s and down.
Long motos for the kids, like 5 laps. perfectly prepped for small bikes. Tilled about 6 to 8 inches.
they have 8 or so classes. 2 long practices in the morning, then they start the motos.
run through them then start over until they are done. Mini track was done by 1 ish?
Then open riding for the 50 track with flaggers for the rest of the day.
Dave and I also ran 2 classes on the big track. (they would hold the gate for us if we asked)
we were done with all moto's by 3PM. We had 4 laps and 14 moto's
Red Bud did the same programs Saturday and Sunday.
turn out was a little low on Saturday cause of the qualifier, but Sunday they were rolling in.
75 bucks to get in for a family of 4 for two nights.
30 bucks a class, I handed it over with a smile. Tons of seat time
2 t shirts at 20 bucks each.
A dungey bike for 30 bucks
supported the food guys and the track support vendors. at least 50 bucks.
Scavenger hunt and fantastic facility. ( I do with they had showers though)
So it is not about the money. I handed out tons of money and will do it every time Red Bud is open.
We could have done it much cheaper without buying so much stuff.
Same with Baja and other tracks that have kids programs.
Sign up...swipe AMA card, Pay cashier, sign waiver, done. 3 windows open.
2 computers for the AMA card, separate trailer for membership sign ups.
They have a second track and gate for the beginner 65s and down.
Long motos for the kids, like 5 laps. perfectly prepped for small bikes. Tilled about 6 to 8 inches.
they have 8 or so classes. 2 long practices in the morning, then they start the motos.
run through them then start over until they are done. Mini track was done by 1 ish?
Then open riding for the 50 track with flaggers for the rest of the day.
Dave and I also ran 2 classes on the big track. (they would hold the gate for us if we asked)
we were done with all moto's by 3PM. We had 4 laps and 14 moto's
Red Bud did the same programs Saturday and Sunday.
turn out was a little low on Saturday cause of the qualifier, but Sunday they were rolling in.
75 bucks to get in for a family of 4 for two nights.
30 bucks a class, I handed it over with a smile. Tons of seat time
2 t shirts at 20 bucks each.
A dungey bike for 30 bucks
supported the food guys and the track support vendors. at least 50 bucks.
Scavenger hunt and fantastic facility. ( I do with they had showers though)
So it is not about the money. I handed out tons of money and will do it every time Red Bud is open.
We could have done it much cheaper without buying so much stuff.
Same with Baja and other tracks that have kids programs.
Mandy Boorom
PR Member
Wow let us know next time you all head up there! Sounds like a fantastic time, I haven't been to a Red Bud local race in years.
Double D
PR Founding Father
Hersheys 5 year old had race number two, (PW) and now has the race bug!
We had a great time, I am still tired, I had to prep my track and ride after we got home Sunday cause my kid (Nick) was all fired up about racing, cause he had so much fun.
Priceless.
RocketRobin
PR Founding Father
Red Bud does it right and they have all had families growing up themselves riding and racing. They know how to put on a show for the little guys and the big guys and keep them interested and moving all at the same time. Zman and I started our little ones racing a Saturday LL Qualifier there one year on the kids track on PW's and then we raced on Sunday in the Vet classes and had a great time with the kids and in our own races the following day. They cater to the racers and know that a lot of dads are racing the Vet classes as well and work to allow both to have a happy race day for the kids and the dads at the same time.
Hoping to make the regional there is a couple of weeks for more Red Bud Memories.
Hoping to make the regional there is a couple of weeks for more Red Bud Memories.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
That's the programs that grow the sport and keep interest. And draw interest from riders living 6 hours plus away as well.
As a newbie type dad to the sport (i never rode). My son's last year on 50s was last year, he has now been riding for 2 years...
IMO the limiting factor is TIME and Expense. For me to take Jr. to practice once during the week its minimum 45 minutes one way, and probably easy 2 hours one way to different tracks on a weekend, then a few hours at the track and on way home... On average for Jr. to play ball and stick sport, its drive within 15 minutes in local community, practice one hour or so and your on your way home.. Multiply that by 2 times a week it adds up...
The two families that i sold my 50s to were overwhelmed with the price of bikes, parts etc. Not to mention the work that went along with them to keep them running. Both families were new to the sport. ITs like a 2nd full time job sometimes.. and I'm finding 65s aren't that much better. I think it is almost overwhelming for parents that never rode and don't understand what is really involved, a lot of time and work. Generally I think most aren't used to a commitment like that are new to the sport... And i talk to a lot of parents at the tracks and otherwise.. Definitely harder with divorced families (which there are a lot more of these days) and families with multiple siblings that do not ride.
As for cost not being a deterrent, if you buy a bike, practice twice a week, and race a few times a month within your state; pretty much what we did last year with the exception of a few more races for fun out of state.. I spent an easy 20K.... Not sure about you guys but I'm thinking that is a good chunk of coin for the majority of families...
IMO the limiting factor is TIME and Expense. For me to take Jr. to practice once during the week its minimum 45 minutes one way, and probably easy 2 hours one way to different tracks on a weekend, then a few hours at the track and on way home... On average for Jr. to play ball and stick sport, its drive within 15 minutes in local community, practice one hour or so and your on your way home.. Multiply that by 2 times a week it adds up...
The two families that i sold my 50s to were overwhelmed with the price of bikes, parts etc. Not to mention the work that went along with them to keep them running. Both families were new to the sport. ITs like a 2nd full time job sometimes.. and I'm finding 65s aren't that much better. I think it is almost overwhelming for parents that never rode and don't understand what is really involved, a lot of time and work. Generally I think most aren't used to a commitment like that are new to the sport... And i talk to a lot of parents at the tracks and otherwise.. Definitely harder with divorced families (which there are a lot more of these days) and families with multiple siblings that do not ride.
As for cost not being a deterrent, if you buy a bike, practice twice a week, and race a few times a month within your state; pretty much what we did last year with the exception of a few more races for fun out of state.. I spent an easy 20K.... Not sure about you guys but I'm thinking that is a good chunk of coin for the majority of families...
ck1racerx
PR Addict
I have been keeping track of all expenses for racing this year and plan to do so until the end of the year just to see how expensive it really is.
5 races in:
Gate fee = $80
AMA, OMA = 49
Sign up = 125
Gas = 85.60 (Figured at $2.65 per gallon which has been the average so far)
Food at the track = 36.50
Total = 376.10
I am keeping a total for bike, parts, practice fees, gear and misc crap and will add that at the end after I add back in the sales price of the bike.
I am not tracking food and things we bring from home since we have it anyway and would use it no matter if we were racing or playing hide and go seek.
This is a good exercise everyone should do.
I understand your point 395. This sport is a HUGE endeavor for new people to jump in blindly.
Remember, racing gives you an opportunity to spend the entire day / weekend with your kids and can you really put a price on that? Well I guess I have. $376.10
5 races in:
Gate fee = $80
AMA, OMA = 49
Sign up = 125
Gas = 85.60 (Figured at $2.65 per gallon which has been the average so far)
Food at the track = 36.50
Total = 376.10
I am keeping a total for bike, parts, practice fees, gear and misc crap and will add that at the end after I add back in the sales price of the bike.
I am not tracking food and things we bring from home since we have it anyway and would use it no matter if we were racing or playing hide and go seek.
This is a good exercise everyone should do.
I understand your point 395. This sport is a HUGE endeavor for new people to jump in blindly.
Remember, racing gives you an opportunity to spend the entire day / weekend with your kids and can you really put a price on that? Well I guess I have. $376.10
Double D
PR Founding Father
It is a huge chunk of money, and that is one of the points of this post.
There is still a lot of money on the table for the tracks to grab up. Attract the younger riders, and their parents wallet. ( I want the tracks to make money)
Look what we spent at lincoln trail alone!
This is not a sport for everyone, It is not affordable for everyone.
I love going to the races with my kid and hanging out with you knuckle heads. ( Its like a show, watching everyone) ( Nick won his first MOto btw. 2 OA with a 4 - 1)
My track is open to you any time. (395dad) Nick made me prep after a four hour ride home so he could practice.
After the rain today it is perfect.
Load up!
There is still a lot of money on the table for the tracks to grab up. Attract the younger riders, and their parents wallet. ( I want the tracks to make money)
Look what we spent at lincoln trail alone!
This is not a sport for everyone, It is not affordable for everyone.
I love going to the races with my kid and hanging out with you knuckle heads. ( Its like a show, watching everyone) ( Nick won his first MOto btw. 2 OA with a 4 - 1)
My track is open to you any time. (395dad) Nick made me prep after a four hour ride home so he could practice.
After the rain today it is perfect.
Load up!
John250
PR Founding Father
395 I agree the sport is expensive. I race my son races. 3 classes for the two of us a race. My 450, my son's 85. All the gear, etc etc etc. I can assure you I did not spend $20,000 racing. We did alot of local stuff. Raced daytona, raced all the battle races, etc. No one would ever say I don't ride good bikes or skimp on equipment. it does NOT have to cost $20,000 to race a good amount in the state of Ohio with one kid.
John,
I don't know what anyone else spends.. But a KTM 50 new costs 3k-5k (which is crazy to me) . .. Then parts out the wazoo because they break all the time.. With going down south a few times and winter I put almost 21k Miles on my truck for moto last year... at around $3.50 a gallon for diesel last year getting 13mpg towing I spent almost 6k on fuel alone...If you are riding 2 times a week and racing 3 times a month roughly, gate fees etc. 2x a week average practice i spent $4160 for the season last year... so ya I spent it.. plus hotels, food, misc. BS.. if you are keeping kids on the bike it adds up. Now if you just wanna go practice here and there and race once or twice a month, and stay closer to home then sure.. way cheaper. I'm just saying i didn't do anything crazy and that is what i spent...Included in that total is also some LLQ stuff and a few other weekends riding out of state in the summer. So that definitely extended some travel to make it pricier.. I guess its all in what you want...The more you do anything the more it will cost..
IMO even if you stay within 2 hours of the house and practice once a week and race most race weekends it is still going to be a 10k year sport...still a good bit of coin.
I don't know what anyone else spends.. But a KTM 50 new costs 3k-5k (which is crazy to me) . .. Then parts out the wazoo because they break all the time.. With going down south a few times and winter I put almost 21k Miles on my truck for moto last year... at around $3.50 a gallon for diesel last year getting 13mpg towing I spent almost 6k on fuel alone...If you are riding 2 times a week and racing 3 times a month roughly, gate fees etc. 2x a week average practice i spent $4160 for the season last year... so ya I spent it.. plus hotels, food, misc. BS.. if you are keeping kids on the bike it adds up. Now if you just wanna go practice here and there and race once or twice a month, and stay closer to home then sure.. way cheaper. I'm just saying i didn't do anything crazy and that is what i spent...Included in that total is also some LLQ stuff and a few other weekends riding out of state in the summer. So that definitely extended some travel to make it pricier.. I guess its all in what you want...The more you do anything the more it will cost..
IMO even if you stay within 2 hours of the house and practice once a week and race most race weekends it is still going to be a 10k year sport...still a good bit of coin.
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TwentyThreeMX
PR Founding Father
i dont wana math how much money i spend on dirt bikes between bikes parts gas and trips south during the winter months... they tend to add up quick, hotels food etc... its probably more than some people make in a year... scary thought but you know if i didnt blow money on this stuff i would probably find way worse of crap to spend it on. and it certainly isnt any fun watching it sit in the bank!
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
My dad just sold a mint 85 and a mint 85L package deal for $2500.
Doesn't get cheaper than that.
Doesn't get cheaper than that.
TimSr90
PR Addict
This topic has gone round and round, and the general consensus on this board is that MX is a great value but very expensive, and those who are not familiar with it or interested or curious enough to see it as a great value, and willing to pony up the big bucks and totally commit yourself before you ever get started should just stay away from it, and thats what people do. That pretty much limits your "growth of the sport" potential to the kids of current racers or friends of current racers. And "growth of the sport" should not be confused with increasing attendance by capturing a larger portion of the existing racers at a given location. Thats called "business competition for market share". Adding racers to the sport, who were not previously racing is "growth" of the sport. Increasing your market share improves profitability in real time for you, but those other places who lost market share to you experience the decline.
Growing the sport is a long term investment, hard work, and not profitable in the short term, nor is there guarentee it will bear fruit in the long run. There is a huge untapped potential market out there of anybody who owns a bike or quad. It remains untapped because, even though they may be interested in running a track, they do not see laying out $60 or $70 to appease their curiosity as the same "great value" as those who race regularly. Some seemed shocked that a first time racer is not thrilled about being required to help fund an awards banquet he has absoluetly no interest in, in order to be permitted to make his test run at a local race.
Then we have the guys who enjoy racing only a couple times a year, and have no interest in series, or points, or year end awards, or awards banquets. They mostly do outlaw tracks, because sanctioned would rather send them away than allow them to race without funding the awards banquet. You used to see a lot of these guys at fair races when it was affordable. Now they can count on spending $65 for their once a year 8 minutes on the track, so neither they, nor their once a year buddies who came to watch or race with them attend any more.
So all this talk about cost and value by committed riders is useless as it pertains to the non-racing rider. He will not see it that way unless he falls in love with the sport first. He is not being swayed to commit his money and his time to motocross because he is reading the Pitracer clique promising that if he lays out his money now, he will see the great value later. If you want his money, you are going to have to get him on the track, and loving it first. You're not going to convince him by posting on Pitracer. If we are unwilling to find a way to do that, then we should be content with whatever "growth" of new racers that Smith Rd and other outlaw tracks create, and let the existing promoters keep competing for them instead of creating new racers of their own. If your specialty is catering to serious and committed racers for the season, and the year end festivities, that is fine for that group of people, and it may increase your share of existing riders, but it will not result in the growth of the sport you are looking for.
Growing the sport is a long term investment, hard work, and not profitable in the short term, nor is there guarentee it will bear fruit in the long run. There is a huge untapped potential market out there of anybody who owns a bike or quad. It remains untapped because, even though they may be interested in running a track, they do not see laying out $60 or $70 to appease their curiosity as the same "great value" as those who race regularly. Some seemed shocked that a first time racer is not thrilled about being required to help fund an awards banquet he has absoluetly no interest in, in order to be permitted to make his test run at a local race.
Then we have the guys who enjoy racing only a couple times a year, and have no interest in series, or points, or year end awards, or awards banquets. They mostly do outlaw tracks, because sanctioned would rather send them away than allow them to race without funding the awards banquet. You used to see a lot of these guys at fair races when it was affordable. Now they can count on spending $65 for their once a year 8 minutes on the track, so neither they, nor their once a year buddies who came to watch or race with them attend any more.
So all this talk about cost and value by committed riders is useless as it pertains to the non-racing rider. He will not see it that way unless he falls in love with the sport first. He is not being swayed to commit his money and his time to motocross because he is reading the Pitracer clique promising that if he lays out his money now, he will see the great value later. If you want his money, you are going to have to get him on the track, and loving it first. You're not going to convince him by posting on Pitracer. If we are unwilling to find a way to do that, then we should be content with whatever "growth" of new racers that Smith Rd and other outlaw tracks create, and let the existing promoters keep competing for them instead of creating new racers of their own. If your specialty is catering to serious and committed racers for the season, and the year end festivities, that is fine for that group of people, and it may increase your share of existing riders, but it will not result in the growth of the sport you are looking for.